Aspheric or Convex lens for Convoy S or Jaxman?

LED Flashlights – General Info
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There are too many variables to say definitively. You’d have to get some lenses and try them out. It would depend on where the emitter falls within the focal length of the lens. So the resulting beam could be anything from a focused image of the die, to a large “moon”. Lens quality, geometry, refraction surface, and the material itself also comes into play and could introduce other characteristics.

Someone makes a small light that uses a de-focused convex lens… either energizer or Lenser IIRC. IIRC its marketed exactly for this purpose… like mechanics and electricians “inspection light”. I think there are medical inspection lights and headlamps too that use convex lens optics… marketed for doctors, physicians, dentists etc.

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If you took a zoomable flashlight and placed it in the fully zoomed out (flood) position, that is the beam profile I’m wanting to achieve.

Kramer also answered this pretty well, I’m going after the “large moon” effect he described.
And Litebringer also answered the question in an earlier post here with “It’d make a kick-ass flooder” and “a nice wide flood that’ll be buttery smooth and even”

If you look into the 3 production lights that I’ve been mentioning throughout this thread, (Klarus Mi1C, Sunwayman T26C or the yet-to-be-released Utorch S1 Mini) you’ll get a better picture of my idea for modding a Convoy S or Jaxman E2 with a fixed convex lens. Those 3 lights are built for the same result I hope to achieve, basically a beam like a zoomie that’s fixed in flood position. And yes I think it will be a sharper focus to create a more even, balanced flood beam.

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I guess what you’re saying is “why not just buy a BD04 instead?” :slight_smile:

Well, if I were to just buy a production light it would be a different light than the BD04 (read on below) For this build I don’t want a zoomie, I have several zoomies already, and will probably get a few more, in fact I’m becoming slightly obsessed with them… (my zoomie thread): Zooming Model List (2018 Updated) Tell us about your newest zoomie!

For this I want a “fixed” (non-zoom) set up for several reasons:

1. Shorter, more compact.
2. Better thermal transfer.
3. No moving body parts.
4. More water resistant.
5. Don’t need throw for this.

The 32mm head of the BD04 is way too big for what I’m going after. The final form of this light is going to be an 18350 sized “mini” with straight tube and magnet tail. I may also sometimes swap to an 18500 tube for even more battery capacity. The 18350/18500 tubes are readily available for the S2+ and Jax E2, and I already have several. I’m also planning to boost the output. The full size BD04 with it’s larger moveable zooming head and usb charging is totally out for this concept.

The closest production light I could buy would be the Sunwayman T26C, however it is not available in NW, is lacking in output, and does not have a magnetic tail, it’s also somewhat expensive. I was thinking of getting one and swapping out the emitter, boosting output and adding a tail magnet, that’s when I got the idea to look into building the light.

The only detriment to not actually modding the Sunwayman is my build will only be a few mm shorter with 18350, compared to the Sunwayman with 18650. One of the advantages however is that I can choose my UI with the various firmware options such as Biscotti, Crescendo, Dr. Jones etc etc. Of the 3 production lights I keep mentioning here, my light will have better output than all 3 and better battery capacity than the Klarus or Utorch.

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beam0,

Thanks for the well-written explanations.
I think I get it now, and understand better the concepts behind a fixed convex lens. Cheers!

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Have you looked at wide angle TIRs? These fit easily in the S2+, are efficient, and might give the beam pattern you are looking for.

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The TIRs I’ve tried are excellent in narrower angles, say, up to 60°, but wider angles (90° and 120°) tend to have some artifacts like halos/rings around the periphery.

Always worth a try if he wants to, but I’d stick with 60° as the widest I’d want to go with.

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beam0:

Your plan makes complete sense to me, but I’m curious to know how you’re going to keep the aspheric lens in position?

Glue it on, or have some sort of cylindrical collar between the lens and the MCPCB, as an equivalent to the way that the stock Convoy reflector keeps everything pressed in place? Or something I haven’t thought of?

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Thanks for the suggestion, not yet but soon, I do have a 30 degree, (and some narrow 10’s and 15’s too) I have the 60’s on order right now.

I’ve participated in some recent discussions on the subject in these threads:

So I’ll be trying them soon , but there seems to be something unique and pleasing about the beam of a zoomie on full flood.

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Thanks, that’s a good point to consider, I do have a plan for that (mentioned earlier here) however your question made me think deeper into the issue.

I’m planning to use a fat O-ring for a spacer as Litebringer suggested in post #6 above:

“Use a fat O-ring as a spacer, snug up the pill so that the LED’s almost touching the lens, and you’ll have a nice wide flood that’ll be buttery smooth and even.”

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That will keep the aspheric lens in position as you asked, However your comment : “the stock Convoy reflector keeps everything pressed in place” made me consider: how the mcpcb will be held down tight to the pill, So a screw or cement might come into play at some point…

The mcpcb is normally held down tight to the pill by the inner raised portion under the reflector that sits close around the LED.

The fat O-ring will mostly sit on the edge of the pill and the stock mcpcb is pretty much flush in height with that edge, so if the O-ring is just slightly wider than that lip it will also press on the mcpcb around the edges of it, basically sitting/pressing on the wires and solder, this should suffice for the stock mcpcb / 7135 Constant current driver setup.

However after I get it built and see how everything fits & works, I’ll probably be swapping the stock board for a Noctigon that will be a thicker board than stock (1.5mm vs 0.94mm), then the O-ring will press more on the board. I’ll have Arctic Silver under the board, but now I’m concerned that pressing the board from its outside edge may not be ideal in a high heat setup? In that case I may have to look into screws or thermal cement for the noctigon, but a screw would be best if I can do it.

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No problem! I still would like to try that BD04 someday for a zoomie, (I included it in the list in my zoomie thread when I started it back in 2016).

In fact your suggestion has got me wondering something else: Is the BD04 battery tube removable? (threaded at both ends) or is it one piece at the top for the slider?

I’ve been toying around lately with making shorty zoomies by adapting 18350 tubes, so the BD04 would be a great candidate for one of my shorty zoom setups if the tube was removable and lego’d.

But I’m pretty sure it doesen’t looking a this cool disassembly gif:

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Thanks for the explanation, beam0. d_t_a is right, you do write very clearly.

I have a BD04, and unfortunately, you’re right about the battery tube, it’s all one piece with the head. The only relevant part that unscrews is the tailcap, which is attached to the battery carrier / charger assembly. The bezel unscrews as well, but that doesn’t help here.

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Thanks for the info, that’s what I thought on the BD04 tube, It’s mostly the side switched zoomies that have a removable tube that’s threaded on both ends.

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I posted some pictures of the Convoy BD04 here:

(although I didn’t take a picture of the battery carrier portion of the tube in that message thread)

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Thanks, great pics shows everything!

Sorry to hear you got the old driver/firmware, but good to see you were successful with the upgrade! (your first mod?) :+1:

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(yes, my first ‘mod’, if it can be called that…)

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Just realized a lot of what I wrote above about holding down the mcpcb/lip of pill etc. might be different because with the S2+ I’d need a triple spacer to bring the LED up close enough to the bezel, I think.

And completely different if I use the Jaxman host, as it’s an integral design. I’ll probably need to get the Jaxman to see if it would work better than an S2+ with spacer. I think the idea is to get the emitter as close to the optic as possible - then everything (LED & optic) as close to the front as possible.

With either setup (S2+ w/triple spacer or Jaxman host) It looks like I’d need to drill 2 new holes for the wires because the wire hole is in the center. Also not sure if having that hole in the center is an issue for heat, the hole in the MTN spacer looks huge.

I guess I’m heading into uncharted waters with this, it appears no one has actually tried or done this?

Jaxman E2:

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v v MTN S2+ triple spacer v v

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Just came across this and thought it was interesting (for a P-60 drop-in, not for S2 or E2)

Convert a P-60 light into a fixed flooder exactly like I’m discussing here. It puts the convex lens very close to the emitter, but it’s set back pretty deep from the bezel. Neat part.

https://www.solarforceflashlight-sales.com/products/solaforce-l2-cl1-premium-glass-convex-lens-with-aluminum-alloy-holder-perfect-close-range-illumination-solution

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Looks like it’d block most of the floodiness with the big Cone Of Shame™ around it.

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Haha, trademarked already! Yeah I was wondering how that would work being set back so deep.

That would cut down the width of the beam, ya think?

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Lots. Worse if side-firing light reflects off the COS at weird angles and makes a really weird beam.

39

They should have raised the LED and positioned the aspheric farther out.