wow you bought the meter I was looking into !
the resolution seems better than YR1030/1035
I am concerned about the rechargeable battery whether end user can find a “suitable” replacement later on
The internal rechargeable battery inside the YR1030+ is just an 18650.
I used my YR1035 around 400 times yesterday — Kind of depressing though – I had 120 HE4 cells – Only 30 tested in acceptable range (needed 42) — I had to break out my stash of VTC6 and 30Q ( grandkids scooters come first LOL)
If you are talking about the meter that I got the RC3563, the battery seems to be commonly available.
it is a 3.7V 523450 LIPO. The leads are soldered though.
He shows it well in this video:
They are on Amazon for between $9 and $12.
https://www.amazon.com/BORNMIO-Rechargeable-Connector-Household-Appliances/dp/B0CH33FT9N/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2Y0LB3F4JEGGO&keywords=3.7V+523450&qid=1703356711&s=electronics&sprefix=3.7v+523450%2Celectronics%2C164&sr=1-5
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This is a link to the manual for my new meter
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Curious
per the results that @quahog posted his results with hisYR1030+ meter were not far off. Certainly much, much closer that what I got.
I have a little more data.
Cells.
1 LGDBHE 411865 Yellow wrapper. Probably 4 to 5 years old
2 Samsung 18650 30Q Pink wrapper. Also 4 to 5 years old
3 Lishen HP 21700. This was one discussed as a mystery cell. Maybe Lishen. Could be ordered with high output lights from Neal
4 Molicell 21700 P42
I took 4 readings for each cell with the MC3000 and averaged them. I did the same with the new RC3563. Voltage as measured with the MC3000 with 2 hours rest after a full charge.
Voltage MC3000 RC3563
-
4.17 98 6.639 -
4.16 106 2.896 (*) -
4.19 22 1.478 -
4.18 49 1.802
Well, to use a very old expression… “more grist for the mill” 
That number 2 reading on the RC3563 (*) really made me wonder. I took the reading an additional 5 times just to make sure.
I have done a bunch of more reading. There are some good discussions of this kind of meter here:
This guy “Wolf” works with them a bunch and has purchased and tested something like 30 of them. H says at one point that the AC impedance readings are typically on the order of half of the DC readings from most analyzer/charger devices. Obviously my readings are not even close to that. I am looking at getting some precision resistors to try and calibrate this thing.
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This may come in handy for answering the OPs question:
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it’s just me being picky maybe, would have preferred an 18650 there, those lipo on amazon can be “shady”
I too would prefer an 18650. AND, yes buying any battery on Amazon can be dicey. But it is what the RC3563 uses. So far I have not read anything negative about the batteries in them. So it may not be a worry for as long as you will use the meter…
Besides, with the price of the meter and cost of the battery, the thing almost becomes a throw away… especially if you have used it for some years.
My bigger worry is figuring out whether mine is just horribly inaccurate… or what?
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that’s why my multimeters, clamp meters, IR thermometers… I bought these in pairs to crosscheck lol
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This is bit of a catch-up / catch-all post.
First, let’s revisit the ‘expectations’ question we discussed earlier, which I deferred on. Based on seat-of-pants, gut feel, one of my original personal expections was that the same-cell impedance measurements obtained with one of these impedance meters would fall roughly in the ballpark range of ~20-50% of the DCIR values reported by a typical DCIR charger / analyzer. After further analysis since, having dug into the actual principles / formulas / math involved, my original guess seems to be supported by most of the evidence presented so far. That is also in line with HKJ’s statement I quoted, where although he did not assign a number, he said would be ‘considerably smaller’. It also helps explain his other statement that the 2 sets of numbers are essentially not comparable, at least not in any productive way. I gather that is perhaps not consistent with your original expectations, although I’ll let you confirm that, but you seem to perhaps be surprised by the results you’re seeing so far. My further analysis of the underlying reasons for the difference since then has roughly validated / confirmed my expectation, only now I will add that the 20% number could range lower with some cells, but the 50% is very unlikely to be exceeded significantly, in theory.
The Molicel numbers kindly provided by @quahog show ~50% or so, which is in that range. I certainly did note that the numbers for the 16340 cell he reported are definitely far outside of my expections, appear to be an ‘outlier’, and I red flagged that data for further analysis to try to understand the cause of those numbers, but for now I am temporarily focusing on the numbers you report and are seeing yourself, first-hand as you test. Those 16340 numbers are indeed “curious”, and I’m not ignoring them, I’m just deferring analysis of them until later. There’s something ‘going on’ there which is not apparent. If you have a 16340 (or failing that, perhaps a 14500) cell you can measure (per my original request), that might further such analysis.
The numbers you reported in post 54 are ~10%, and definitely fall within the range of my current expectations. I’m not surprised by them at all, and don’t think you should be either.
In a nutshell / sentence, the difference between these numbers depends primarily on the relationship between the DC resistance of the cell (R) [which is what the DCIR chargers measure], and the capacitive reactance (X-sub-C) [I’ve forgotten how to type those on a keyboard) component of the cell’s complex impedance (Z) [which is essentially what the impedance meter is measuring]. Let me know if you’re having trouble accounting for the differences between your readings to date, and I think I can explain what’s going on with that first sentence, and even provide a little virtual experiment / demonstration we can walk through together mentally. Since you have both a DMM and an impedance meter, you could actually do the demonstration I went through mentally right there if you have an appropriate resistor and capacitor to use. It’s not that bloody complex, and the math is even within my limited capabilities;-) I figure if you’re not quite comfortable with the difference between these measurements you’re getting, others probably aren’t either, so an explanation might help others as well. I can do that. It certainly wouldn’t be time wasted for me, because it would form a perfect foundation for another post I’m still planning to do, in which I will explain why I have no intention of or desire to measure the internal impdance of my Li-ion cells, and how I arrived at that conclusion.
EDIT: BTW, I did also see your numbers in post 68, and while they’re <10%, that isn’t particularly surprising to me either given my current understanding. That reflects why I had shifted the lower number of my expected range down below the original 20% wild guess I’d made. I expected the lower number could be even lower, but the higher number likely not much higher. “Considerable”?, yeah, I’d say ol’ HKJ chose a pretty appopriate word there;-)
Also BTW, I see no good reason (unless I’m missing something here) to contemplate recalibration of your new meter. I certainly wouldn’t recommend it. I think you may be trying to solve a problem that doesn’t exist, which I know from experience is never a good road to go down
Cheers!
Exactly what type of 16340 cell did you test in post #52? Those impedance numbers look exceedingly strange to me, and I’m hoping to understand why.
Thanx!
The protected 16340 cell was an Olight ORB-163P06
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I’m unsure about the origin or basis of your expectations regarding the measurement ranges, but I was quite surprised by the AC IR measurements below 5mR.
There are many battery datasheets that report internal impedance.
https://www.imrbatteries.com/content/samsung_30T.pdf (Samsung 30T <14mR)
https://www.imrbatteries.com/content/samsung_40T.pdf (Samsung 40T <12mR)
https://www.imrbatteries.com/content/samsung_50S.pdf (Samsung 50S <14mR)
https://www.imrbatteries.com/content/samsung_30Q.pdf (Samsung 30Q <26mR)
https://www.imrbatteries.com/content/samsung_35E.pdf (Samsung 35E <35mR)
https://www.nkon.nl/sk/k/Specification%20INR18650MJ1%2022.08.2014.pdf (LG MJ1 <40mR)
One of the benefits of having these IR meters is that you can check if your battery is within spec, because you can readily compare your measurements with that from the manufacturer.
I own several types of Samsung and Molicel batteries, and my measurements with the YR1035+ were more or less in line with the datasheets. They were not far away from the upper limit.
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This is a quote from a sales blurb/FAQ on the meter that I have:
How big is the internal resistance of 18650?
“Answer: The internal resistance of the new 18650 lithium battery is generally below 50 milliohms, which is about 20 milliohms, about 30 milliohms, and the worst is 50 milliohms.”
I am not ready to disagree with much of what you are saying, but the differences I am seeing make me suspect the meter is not giving me accurate readings.
I have 4 14500 cells on the charger. From 6 months to 4 years old and one with USB charging. After the charge and rest, I will check IR on the MC3000 and the RC3563 and report.
Just a quick comment on “comparing” the numbers for AC and DC IR measurements. For my purposes, as mentioned several times, the testing is for grading cells for State Of Health (SOH) and identifying those that are End Of Life (EOL). To do that it is not necessary to directly compare numbers in absolute values , but rather to identify the ranges of numbers that indicate the level of cell health. It is a project for the longer term. I have many years of numbers for DC IR measurements and experience along with other measurements has taught me how to interpret them. I now have a different method of measurement that is possibly more accurate and more repeatable. It is also not dependent on state of charge. But it will take some time to build a database and experience set to become as comfortable with it as I am using DC IR.
But first, I need to satisfy myself that the meter is giving me good readings. I ordered a range of precision resistors to check it.
There has to be a reason that many/most of the manufacturers use AC IR in their spec sheets… yes?
I will post the results for the 14500 cells a bit later.
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This is for the guys that still have hair to pull out – Mine has been gone
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Thank you for this info! Let me follow up on the substance of this info later when there’s time.
I just have a rather simple, basic question to ask of someone, and you’re an easy target, if I may. You likely use Li-ion cells in flashlights, too. It’s not in response to your post, and is not a ‘trick question’ of any sort. Just want one person’s off-hand answer as a sanity check (my own):
Q: Generally speaking, would you consider your flashlight to be an AC or DC device/system/application/electrical environment?
TIA
DC of course. Why are you asking the obvious question? You must have an intent and I think I know where you are going with it. If you have a point to make, I suggest you do in a obvious and a straight way.