Yeah, I keep hoping the kiddies will get over themselves one day, but alas… :person_facepalming:
I think mostly things have been ok, a few cases of lights not putting out the stated lumens but I usually tend to associate that sort of thing with certain brands. I am currently sitting on 3 of the same light after getting one replacement and all 3 have major problems and do not work. Others who bought the light also had the same issues. Some people were totally fine. Still, 3 duds makes me think the manufacturer didn’t test jack shit before putting their product into the real world. And of course when dealing with the places we buy from on here (BG, Gb etc) there is nothing you can do but eat the loss. I was lucky they even sent a replacement. They just straight up ignore me when I ask about the second dud light I bought. Maybe pay pal has a no lemon policy. Ultimately though, I have better things to worry about and simply just won’t throw my money at certain companies anymore.
Haha! Thats the way I have to look at things sometimes. I take the family out to get burgers. I usually have a beer or two, the wife has a glass of wine, the kids a couple of soft drinks, and food for 4. I look at the bill at 45 bucks and think to myself, “humm which light could I have bought for this”
That has to be an assumption on both sides of the transaction.
I’m proud to be a beta tester, good at breaking things, good at figuring out how to improve things.
I’m proud to work with people who want beta testers to give them information in a timely and useful way.
I’m proud to take the next version out and test not just the one thing they changed, but all the other things just in case, just in case there was some little slip-up on the new round on something different that had already been checked in the past round and found good.
I”m glad to work with people to share lists of things worth checking each time a new model comes into someone’s hands
Because if each person checks only one thing, it’s easy to miss something that matters.
But if each person is aware of all the things that are known to go wrong and glances at all of them
And thinks, now, what haven’t we checked
We’ll catch most of them.
That’s what I assume we’re doing when we’re beta testers
What I resent, when it happens, is finding out that I’ve actually been a Charlie tester.
As in “Sorry, Charlie” — too late to fix that.
Now, thus far, I know only one or two occasions when we’ve actually been beta testers
And we owe that to the people who organized group buys
And we have no idea how hard they had to work to get the crowd here listened to, filtering the crap and passing on the good information
In a timely way.
We can do it.
We should do it.
The people who make flashlights today are going to be making aircraft and fission power plants in a year or two.
Teach them well.
Exactly.
One should only be a beta tester when they know that’s what they are. It’s unreasonable and rude to have people do beta testing when they think they’re getting a finished product.
I see it all the time in software development 
to paraphrase Liber8, I don’t mind the warning but I will (not) heed it. I don’t want to pay to be a beta tester, which seems like it has been going on in some group buys lately.
if it does not perform to spec and or the design is inherently dangerous the mfg/dealer/sub contractor needs to be on the hook.
this is why alpha and betas need to be approved and the spec frozen so everyone is on the same page about performance.
one of the Chinese games is to co mingle runs such that money is saved and responsibility is avoided.
.02 worth
+1
My question is Why is anyone doing/offering a group buy on something that is not tested or which they themselves are not prepared to vouch for in the first place? There is alot of this of late? The individuals that set these buys up, do they get their lights “free” or some form of kickback? Just a real question that needs to be asked as it would explain the number of buys going on?
In that case we are sponsoring something as a Site not just as a individual which frankly makes little to no sense! Beta testers usually get their items free to test at least the ones i have participated in. If the company wants to test a flashlight they offer a certain number of lights free of charge to the test group. Why are we paying to test their flashlight??? Reverse marketing , Donald Trump would be insulted as should the rest of us!
All the warnings that individuals put out stating buyer beware on the purchase means “zero” if they are recommending the item as a group to forum members.
“If you do not believe in the product or sales agent/vendor and have not tested it yourself you sure as hell should not be offering it up as a group buy” to people! By offering it as a group buy you are endorsing the product and vendor. If you can not vouch for either and troubleshoot issues afterwards maybe you should not offer group buy?
If need be get the vendor to provide one to you for free to review and review it properly. If you want to be a Ginny Pig than by all means spend your own money and than give a review. if you believe it to be a worthwhile investment afterwards then put it up for a Group Vote providing it follows the guidelines for group Buys.
What are the guide lines for group buys here at BLF. Do we have any rules regulations or restrictions on Group buys? Now would be the time to do so that it is both controlled and thought out whithout Caveat Emptor warnings! Again …if you want to buy something untested than go buy it for yourself and stop drawing attention to yourself. Obviously if you can not decide on whether to purchase a flashlight on your own and need to drag 50 plus members with you to purchase you are the last person that should be involved an any group buy here.
I think doing any form of groupbuy without a review is just plain St#%$#&’!pid
I just cant understand we keep on fooling ourselves here…over and over again. The group buys are just about money money money money
Who gets the code out there first can post it online and generate sales…. thats it….PERIOD…
Because, why cant we just wait till we have a few reviews out there… just wait a few weeks or months!
This was and should be the normal way of doing group buys.
(simply because if you arent the first to get the code out there, you miss out on your sneaky income)
Dude, I love that analogy!
After all, once you enjoy a meal and a few drinks all you really have to show for it the next day is what you deposit in the toilet:)
Dinner with the Wife and just soda’s and an appetizer and we are usually at $40-45 with tip and that meal isn’t going to find me my way thru the dark.
I consider any purchase from China to be Caveat Emptor, but that’s just me If it’s really a bad product, Paypal and Visa have my back, no worries there.
And if you really need a review before you buy, then by all means wait for one.
Just don’t whine when the group buy code goes away before you pull the trigger. It’s called a sale price for a reason as in limited time.
JMHO, Your Lumens may Vary !
Actually I would buy and I am sure other would to.
Why, how!
Well, you are comparing let’s say $20 flashlight to, let’s say $20.000 car, to make this comparison fair you have to equalise this 2 products somehow.
Let’s also say that yours, mine or anyone else’s monthly paycheck is $500, for 500 bucks you can buy 25 pcs of JET-II MK flashlights, what if your monthly paycheck was enough to buy 25 Ford cars (by this we equalised percieved worth of this two products, otherwise comparing flashlight and cars would be stupid, right!), would you be rigid and expect absolutely flawlessly perfect car or you wouldn’t care that much if it doesn’t perform as you expected because you didn’t know what to actually expect and you set your expectations high.
PS, this is why I have my personal campaign issue here:
Manufacturers making lights with input from BLF members should always offer HOSTS as well as finished lights.
Why?
It should be obvious.
As written in the thread’s title: Caveat Emptor- Should it apply to group buys?
It applies to all buyers, regardless of the item for sale.
People who set up groupbuys and discount codes get their share by receiving a small % in commission when their codes or affiliated links are used. However this is some sort of taboo in this forum and people don’t like to talk about it, the truth is nobody works for free specially when there is money involved.
Many times it was discussed that group buys are turning this community into a commercial forum, and now some people will only buy X light if there’s a groupbuy going on. It’s some kind of a vicious cycle, probably a necessary one?
+1 on this. With little risk, there is generally little reward. A bargain IS a great reward when you have put forth little risk…
I generally detest visible PWM, so when I ordered a Starry Light DXM without researching it fully, and found it had a very fast visible PWM, I still looked at it as a bargain for $13. I have a fully waterproof light with the easiest variable UI from a sliding switch, so it was a bargain to me for a glove box light. My risk was $13, it had enough features to overlook a “normal” negative in my buying decision process. No complaints. Of course, I also thought the Cometa was a great pile of parts for the price, so what do I really know…
Ya know, you’re wrong about that.
You’d be amazed at the amount of generosity involved in much of what goes on, invisible to those who don’t believe it could be happening.
’oogle “gift economy”
The only reason to do so is to attempt to protect yourself because you did not research the product adequately or you do not believe in the product itself! Any respectable company/Vendor Sales agent is going to look after there purchaser if they believe in their product.
Those using Caveat Emptor as a means to try and protect themselves because they have not done the research and cannot recommend the product should not be offering the group buy in the first place!
This is especially true if people are taking a % on any of these group buys!If that is the case than they should be held accountable for problems that arise. If they are prepared to take the money then they had better be prepared to be held responsible for issues that arise and take care of Members first and foremost!
This type of approach to group buys is reckless and diminishes the integrity of BLF! Hell as mentioned already it is a first come first served for group buys without any integrity whatsoever.
So anyone can offer a group buy for a % of sales taken from forum members? They do not have to research the product or the vendor or sales agent? They do not have to stand by the product that they are suggesting we all buy? They in fact do not have to buy the product themselves only receive $$$ at the end of the sale that all other members bought into. No wonder they want “Caveat Emptor” to be included as though it excludes them from all actions against them,lol.
This is frankly disappointing but fully explains the the actions and concerns of members that are going on her at BLF.
Who authorizes this behavior at BLF as members would like to know and why would you condone this sort of behavior here when all it does is discredits the site.
Uhhh what exactly do you think a groupbuy is? It’s just people who were going to buy a product agree to buy it together so as to get a special group price. Anybody can organize one. Why would it be a requirement that that person have purchased and reviewed the light beforehand? That makes no sense, especially when the organizer is being very open that he has not reviewed the light, hence the “caveat emptor” discussion in the first place.
One day I posted that I was looking for a DC clamp meter. There was a discussion and it came to light that there were many others interested in the same thing. Based on specs and brand reputation alone we decided on a model that suited our needs, and a groupbuy was formed to get that meter for a better price. If it had turned out to be crap, why would we blame the person that negotiated the price for us?
Please don’t act like you speak for all of us.
+1. As an example, are people in sales of consumer products be held liable for the failure of the product, even just short to the expectation of the buyer?