Copper titanium alloys.

zerodish · 2019-01-16T13:39:56.000Z

Titanium is replacing beryllium in automobile antennas. The alloys are suitable for making springs and electrical contacts. Is any one making springs out of this stuff?

BlueSwordM · 2019-01-17T14:31:09.000Z

Wouldn’t really work too well with the type of springs we use.

Beryllium copper C17530 has about the same yield strength and resistance to plastic deformation as titanium.

I looked at them when researching copper alloys for my BLF springs.

They had very similar mechanical properties.

However, the conductivity of titanium copper alloys tops out at 20% IACS, while BeCu C17530 is at 37,5%.

Basically, it was a no brainer to use BeCu C17530 over TiCu C1990 and other alloys.

However, it could be used still for lower performance spring if it is not needed.

Agro · 2019-01-17T07:43:30.000Z

What would be the price difference? I wonder if TiCu would make sense for some budget light manufacturers?…

djozz · 2019-01-17T10:22:30.000Z

TiCu is non-toxic, that counts for something. 20% IACS is still very good.

Agro · 2019-01-17T10:37:24.000Z

djozz, your post is valid but someone who doesn’t know anything about it may be misled to think that the issue is bigger than it is really.
When talking about CuBe toxicity please be specific:
Only its dust is toxic, unless someone grinds the spring there is no risk for them.

djozz · 2019-01-17T12:41:48.000Z

Agro:

djozz, your post is valid but someone who doesn’t know anything about it may be misled to think that the issue is bigger than it is really.
When talking about CuBe toxicity please be specific:
Only its dust is toxic, unless someone grinds the spring there is no risk for them.

I assumed that the reader knew what the risk was as it was discussed in Blue’s spring thread before, but you are right to add that piece of information here also. Still the risk of being in contact with Be-dust is not just theory, as a modder I have sanded many springs for various reasons, it is one of the common things that is done on BLF. Question is of course if when you finally die, can the cause of death ever be backcasted to your BLF modding days? :partying_face:

clientequator · 2019-01-18T17:40:30.000Z

djozz:

Agro:

djozz, your post is valid but someone who doesn’t know anything about it may be misled to think that the issue is bigger than it is really. When talking about CuBe toxicity please be specific: Only its dust is toxic, unless someone grinds the spring there is no risk for them.

I assumed that the reader knew what the risk was as it was discussed in Blue’s spring thread before, but you are right to add that piece of information here also. Still the risk of being in contact with Be-dust is not just theory, as a modder I have sanded many springs for various reasons, it is one of the common things that is done on BLF. Question is of course if when you finally die, can the cause of death ever be backcasted to your BLF modding days? :partying_face:

Mr. djozz, may I know why you sand the spring? Is this for good contact with battery to make spring top flat?

BlueSwordM · 2019-01-18T17:52:46.000Z

Yeah, why would you sand springs?

Nickel/silver plated copper alloys springs are very easy to solder to, and there is no gain in sanding these kind of springs, unless you want to completely remove the plating for some reason.

djozz · 2019-01-18T18:59:31.000Z

I sand tops of springs a bit flat to solder a brass button. Also after a spring-bypass I tend to flatten the solder blob for better battery contact, also some spring material comes off then. The blue springs hardly need a bypass of course.

clientequator · 2019-01-18T21:40:59.000Z

djozz:

I sand tops of springs a bit flat to solder a brass button. Also after a spring-bypass I tend to flatten the solder blob for better battery contact, also some spring material comes off then. The blue springs hardly need a bypass of course.

Mr. djozz, what is a blue spring?

djozz · 2019-01-18T22:00:36.000Z

Sorry, it has become slang on BLF: a Blue spring is a very low-resistent nickel-plated BeCu spring that was custom-ordered by BlueSwordM and sold to many BLF-members lately.

Firelight2 · 2019-01-18T22:00:44.000Z

Not quite sure why you’d want to do a spring bypass with a low-resistance Be-Cu spring. Doesn’t that defeat the purpose of using a low-resistance spring? If doing a spring bypass, might as well use a steel spring.

djozz · 2019-01-18T22:05:57.000Z

^true I have not bypassed any BeCu or phosforbronze spring sofar, but Dale has, and some others.

DavidEF · 2019-01-18T22:15:56.000Z

Firelight2:

Not quite sure why you’d want to do a spring bypass with a low-resistance Be-Cu spring. Doesn’t that defeat the purpose of using a low-resistance spring? If doing a spring bypass, might as well use a steel spring.

Well, the word ‘bypass’ infers something that isn’t true, namely that the spring is no longer conducting electric current. Actually, doing a “spring bypass” is exactly equivalent to stacking resistors. The current flows through BOTH paths. In the case of highly conductive springs, our real-world results may not show much change, because there are other possible bottle-necks. But there is definitely a lot less resistance in a circuit that includes a Be-Cu spring compared to one with a steel spring when both are bypassed (or if they both aren’t bypassed, obviously).

BlueSwordM · 2019-01-20T02:47:51.000Z

You are all right.

Bypassing a single BeCu springs can still yield a non-negligible difference in performance at very high currents. One massive advantage of using a BeCu spring though is that if the bypass fails, your build won’t catch on fire because of a melting spring.

This is why people like Dale always bypass springs no matter what they are made of.

Unless you’re me and you are a lazy incompetent person that can’t bypass springs no matter how much practice or how good my equipment is

That’s why I actually designed a dual spring setup. It’s an extremely potent setup, supporting 20A+ currents without much problem at all. It can actually handle higher currents as Texas Ace and I have tested, but reliability has not been tested above 21A(max current of my testing setup), and it’s not probably going to fare well.

BlueSwordM · 2019-05-19T21:43:52.000Z

So, got something from my spring manufacturer.

Ultimate conical spring(Rev 5.1)
Material: Beryllium Copper Titanium C17550 60% IACS

That last one actually comes from one of the R&D centers of the spring manufacturer.
It’s a prototype alloy, from what I understand, having slightly less beryllium and a touch of titanium.
Much more expensive than BeCu C17530, and still quite a lot more than C17500.
But its conductivity crushes C17530 by a long shot while having similar mechanical properties.

If we can actually get this in our springs, that would make them the absolute best.
However, the price would easily double, or even triple, according to the manufacturer.
Will stay in the R&D phase for now.

Agro · 2019-05-20T07:58:01.000Z

BlueSwordM, if you have updates on the topic, where will they be posted? Here or in your springs thread?
I don’t read the latter but I’d love to be up to date with this development.

Wyre · 2019-05-20T11:48:14.000Z

These new springs sound sick, I do believe that I will have to have a set for the BLF Q8 that I am currently modding.

BlueSwordM · 2019-05-20T14:10:44.000Z

Nah, it’s just a new “wonder” spring material.

I doubt we are ever going to get it in our springs, not only because of price, but sample capacity.

So, more meaningful updates will come in the main spring thread, but talking about copper alloys for springs can be done here.

Still, the response really surprised, and even shocked me.
This is why I removed it from the main thread. To prevent hype from forming.

Who knew they were researching new alloys?

Wyre · 2019-05-20T14:24:01.000Z

I dont like doing spring bypasses, I am not very good at them. If I can just replace the springs and get the performance that I am after… well, I am going to do it.

Besides, springs in and of themselves are not very expensive, and it is quite time consuming for me to get perfect spring bypasses… I have wasted so much wire trying to get perfect bypasses made. (I know, I am a newbie… .I suck, etc etc etc)

I imagine that it will probably take me several hours to do the spring bypasses on my Q8.