Exploring other options... suggestions?

Flashlight Modding and DIY Parts
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Hi All

So I am after some suggestions in another thread I posted I wanted to see what other possibilities there were… after looking around for a bit I wanted to ask the wisdom of fellow BLFers…

I’m a big fan of ‘efficiency’… so right now I have a Qlite driver (3.04A) (http://intl-outdoor.com/qlite-71358-multiple-modes-circuit-board-304a-p-689.html) that I ordered to originally mod my FT XM-L2 drop-in with. After reading a number of threads I saw that running this drop-in in high was going to be brief at best. I would like the option of having to run on high for extended periods if required.

So I started to wonder what kind of build I could make that would be ‘functional’ with the ‘limitations’ of my intended parts…. The driver supplies a 3.04A current which limits this to XM-L/XM-L2(?)… the driver can take 2.8-4.5V input which means only 1 x 18650. The driver will generate a fair amount of heat. I am leaning towards a XM-L2 emitter for the advantages that it offers over the XM-L.

Basically with this configuration, regardless of what my host is I am assuming that runtimes on high will be relatively ‘short’ (in terms of battery life)? What could I hope to expect?

I am assuming heat will be the challenge if running on high for any length because of the 3.04A driver. From some of the hosts suggested (p60s) the options seem to be limited, or quite expensive (custom) due to the original design (surefire). Some had suggested that this was not a big issue. However, I am unclear as to how hard their lights are being driven (need to clarify). To deal with this, I am assuming that I am looking at a physically bigger host with a larger head/cooling fins to handle the heat and its effects… how far/big would I have to go if I wanted to run this light on high and not worry about it?

I would the light to still be fairly portable (most likely not edc), but don’t really want a monster… I would like to be able to use it in all modes without worry of overheating.

For ‘comparison’ a ‘smaller’ budget light like a Convoy M2 is ~$22. Am I building something brighter/’better’, or would I be better off just buying an M2, (not that I am specifically looking for an M20)… I don’t mind going through the experience of building a light… I just don’t really want to make something that I could have bought for less. Since I have the option to customize I would like to take advantage of that… hope this is making sense…

Thanks again for your help!

:slight_smile:

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I don’t have one - so I’m talking out of my envy - but SkyRay King clones are hard to beat for just a little more money.

Something like this or this one. Or, the original one.

Probably one of the best values for a lot of light, and so much smaller than you’d think.

PS - yeah, it’s not a build - unless you mod it afterward like some of the thread you’ll find here.

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Ine other thing i just realised…. for SF options…. I thought I saw that their tail switches are only rated to 3A(?) > I can’t remember where I read this…

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the convoy m2 drivers are simply 8*7135 350ma where as the qlite are 8*7135 380ma chips, you gain 200ma over the standard m2 driver but better modes, as I said in the other thread though the design will better deal with getting the heat outside.

The d5 I suggested is better still - no pill, the star mounts direct to the head, use a sinkpad and lap the two surfaces and you have the best heat interface available. It’ll still warm up, but the heat is leaving the emitter the best way possible, you can ask for no more.

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If you want a really nice host for that LED and Driver go to CNQG and get either the D5 or the Roche F8. They are both the same host with a couple of imperceptible differences. I built the F8, and Gords1001 built the D5, and we are both singing their praises. The pill is integrated with the head and and cooling fins so it is made to handle heat. I believe these hosts, with a 3.04A driver and XM-L are a perfect marriage…and really good looking. superb build and high quality anodizing.
Even though they are identical, the F8 will only accept unprotected batteries. If FastTech ever gets these hosts, I’m going to buy four, right off the bat.

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I have a SRK, they are pretty poor for heat dissipation efficiency, compared to other multi-emitters like J18 (comparable in head size, but more heat is generated w/more emitters and A), and TR-3T6 (same emitters, not driven as “hard”, but does not roast hand outside like SRK). Most probably don’t use them very long so they don’t realize how hot it gets.

I’m not sure what you want, but it sounded like you are looking for efficiency as in not driven hard so as to not overheat and to have more output per A, then those two are better than SRK. J18’s pretty much the champion for light vs price in multi emitter too at $53: 7T6 vs SRK $38: 3T6 and TR-3T6 $30: 3T6 . J18 is better to use on hikes/extended outings in the dark/investigating what goes bump in the night. SRK has more fans, is better to turn on for short periods, show off to your friends, turn off, say look at my pretty golden light :slight_smile:

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@ Gord and Ouchy - Thanks again for the suggestion! The $25 for the host was more than I wanted to spend. The total cost for this light would be $45 with this host ($14 for the drop-in ~$5 for the driver). I guess the question is would I be building something that surpasses something I could buy off the shelf at this price point? (e.g. SRK Clone as GottaZoom suggested? - perhaps not a fair comparison as it has 3 emitters?). That said, it is the best suggestion considering the concerns I had… much appreciated!!

@FP - thanks for the additional info… I had seen that before, but now that I have a better understanding of how everything comes togethe, gives more clarity… thanks!

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thanks for the details. i do like the ‘wow’ factor, but would really rather prefer functionality in the light… as far as ‘not driven hard’ and ‘efficient’ would the Qlite driver be considered ‘inefficient’ for the size of light I am interested in (compact 18650)? From what I understand a 16mm driver can be used in a larger pill as well?… as long as you figure how to attach it securely i am guessing… Would the TF be considered a ‘efficient’ use of this driver?

I’m not after a multi-emitter light (yet anyway… ;)) and want to stick to the more pocketable sizes…

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The Small Sun ZY-T08 (or it’s Ultrafire clone) seems like it might fit the bill. Currently sells for around $24 for the complete light.

EDIT: The light is very well balanced and not a big as it appears in the review pictures. I comfortably carry it like cigar by the butt when I am changing modes alot.

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I recommended you the Qlite driver. Im pretty sure you would be happy since you wanted higher output from your P60.
But not quite sure what you want to achieve anymore and what your definition of efficiency is.

Ill give you some information, and hope that will guide you better.

Check this graph:
This shows efficiency of the XM-L2 at different amps.

As you can see, efficiency is best lower down, around 1 amp… But its not really that much lower when amps go up a lot. Where the best efficiency vs output is another question. Ask 10 people and you get 10 different answers.

When people talk about efficiency, the also talk about the efficiency of the driver circuit. The driver you have ordered have good efficiency. In short that means that output to the LED is not that much lower than the input.

As for heat.
Copper MCPBC, (the thingy the LED is mounted on) will improve efficiency on higher amps output compared to aluminium. It will also make the LED run cooler since it can take away heat faster (the chart above shows this). If you want the best efficiency out the the LED, it needs to be copper mounted. That is beyond what even premium flashlight manufacturers bother to do.

A good nice pill (in most lights the MCPBC (/star/led) is mounted on one if its not directly to the body. Larger mass helps you to keep the LED cooler for a short period since it will “store” more of the heat. In the long run, having a larger surface contact from pill to the body will help with heat transfer. Having the pill made of a material with good heat transfer abilities will also help.

Surface area of the body is what will get the heat away. Heatsink fins adds more surface area. But honestly. If you run a P60 light on 3A for 10 min in a warm environment or a Convoy M1, the difference in surface area is not that much. Basically what I am saying is. Your hand will say that both are really hot! We are talking about 10Watt. When you have two flashlights with about the same size there will not be any major real life difference in how well they are able to get heat away from the flashlight body.

As for battery life. On the Qlite (high) 3A output and a 3400mah battery gives you about an hour of battery life with decent output.
Medium (about 0,75A) will give you 4h+
low will give you 50+ hours.

The whole point with modes is use the one you need for light output or battery life(/efficiency). If you for some reason want to run your light on high all the time in a warm environment and not worry about heat. Just remove one AMC7135 chip from the driver (using soldering iron) You have 8 of them.
Stock, high that gets you: 8*380=3040mA. (3A)
You could just remove 1 if you wanted say 2,65A (7*380).
Still too warm for you??? Remove another one… But then you start to get back to where you started. Not extreme output on high, but most likely still brighter than your P60.

Most people here who mods lights tend to add chips for higher output … :stuck_out_tongue: Unless the flashlight is quite small with little surface area, then it might be better to take away some.

Since you seem to worry a lot about heat sinking I would recommend a T10 (aka OEM D1). Its a great alternative the the also nice OEM D5 mentioned earlier in this thread.
Here you can see it compared to a OEM D4 (aka Convoy M1).

The pill is larger, the reflector is longer compared to D4. That adds more mass and also contact area to the body.
The pill is brass, better than aluminium for getting heat away from the LED/MCPB. The pill is screwed into the body. So it utilize the body tube better than many lights. The length of the light helps. the length of the head helps, and lots of heat sinking fins helps. Will it stay cool in your hand when using it a 3A for a longer period? Absolutely not! Its still 10W to the emitter.

A Convoy C8 (host) is probably the best compact budget alternative with good quality. Shorter than a T10, but larger head. Which makes it less EDC friendly in my opinion. Its nicely built, but cant compare to the T10.

Id recommend you to swap out the driver in your P60 with the 3A Qlite. Use it for a week, or a month. If its too hot (and bright :wink: ) on high, take the driver out and remove a chip or two.
Sometime in the future you could consider to build a more premium light. Either with a more neutral tint or warmer higher CRI for better color rendition, or with the top bin XM-L2 U2 for highest possible light output… Maybe copper mounted LED and 3A output or higher…
Lots of possibilities, no correct answers. Which is the reason many of us have a bunch of flashlights! :wink:
I think this post is enough theory, you need to get some real life practice to find your own preferences,needs and type of use. Good luck on the journey! :slight_smile:

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@ Race - Thank you so much for the amazing post!! You have definitely helped me gain a better understanding of what efficiency can be. Basically at a certain point I need to pick and choose my priorities… then my parts to match!

I also noticed that in this case ‘budget’ is going to have to be relative… LOL!

Again, much appreciated!