Wild that there’s so much difference there.
understandable as far as wall Tint comparisons. However, I think if you use the 519a to look at things with Red color in them, you will begin to appreciate how good the color rendering is… despite the Tint.
That is excellent photography! Especially with WB locked. imo, your photo comparisons will be even better if you shoot more than one beam per photo… so the comparison is direcly side by side:
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bear in mind that sw45k comes in different degrees of Pink Tint…
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any comparison to sw45k will make a 519a look less pink, aka more green. Like this:
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(I dont have the ability to lock WB, so variations between photos exist… I try to only compare lights within the same image)
However, in actual use the 519a is very neutral, when used while I am daylight adapted. Try this: go look at the engine compartment of your car during the day. Use the 519a and compare it to sw45k. I think you will See that the 519a works better (the light is whiter), in that ambient white balance. otoh, at night, after my brain white balance is adapted to warm white incandescent, the domed 519a is a No Go, and the dedomed option really “shines”… lol, in that ambient white balance.
I have tried to like Neutral Tint, but Im still much happier with Tint below the BBL. Dedoming the 519a does that very well, for me.
I do not use the domed 4500K 519a, instead I used the Dedomed version. Because I prefer Pink tint. The 519a is 2 Tints in One… LOL… dome on for greener, dome off for Pinker. (actually, I find the dedomed tint sort of strawberry colored, not pink like sw45k… but I like strawberries just as much as Pink). First world problems. LOL
before dedome
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dedomed for the Win!:
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I have not seen any 519A’s in person. But as much as I love and prefer rosiness, I agree with you. I don’t like the physical real-life feel of the E21A 4500k, and I adore the real-life feel of rosiness. But in pictures when compared to each other, the astounding lily clean neutral tint of the E21A 4500k is clearly a better and more balanced rendering of colors in photos. Video’s can vary, but in side-by-side, photos usually the neutral wins. Unless you need the rosiness to better accent your photo. But just general photos, E21A is pretty amazing, and I bet this 519A’s neutralness isn’t far behind. It sounds very much like what E21A 45k sounded like when people described it. (Except that E21A is 98CRI so maybe a hair better for photos still). But if one digs rosiness, it is def more in real-life (not photos) that rosiness is by far the better way to intake things over neutral light. Neutral light has a way of feeling like office light and office lights are not my favorite light to physically experience vibrant colors. But obviously that’s a preference thing too.
Yes, it certainly was easy! I didn’t noticed a change in the output or throw with the Carclo 10511 lens. And I was surprised as to how well it mixed the CCTs together even on a white wall.
The dome is completely removed from the glass so I don’t think a more uniform slice or additional removal of the dome would result in a perceivable benefit. But I guess if the dome was sliced and not totally removed from the glass, the results would be different.
jon_slider: What an excellent comparison piece! Photos and comments were very helpful. Thank you!
Is 519a more efficient than 219b, and if so, to some worthwhile degree? And does that vary based on brightness level selected? For example, something like the 519a able to run on medium for 10 minutes longer than 219b at same level. Obviously it would be a shorter time difference on high.
Yes, it is far more efficient, however the beam shape is different and with dome on, it is comparable to a 219c.
the only drawback is that it’s not as rosy
yes,
32% brighter, with a wider hotspot
and Tint duv closer to the neutral BBL:
519a 4500K, 290 lumens max
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219b 4500K, 220 lumens max
^ Good to know, thanks! I’m going to have to look into 519a going forward.
One other thing… was there a binning issue with the 519a? I recall reading some posts earlier on that some people were seeing tint shift (based on brightness level) and some appearing more green than expected. From what I’m reading here it sounds like a 519a that appears more green than desired can be shifted by removing the dome.
Depends on what lightsource you compare it with. Take any two neutral lights and and compare them side by side: One will be green, the other one rosy. There is no absolute perception of the tint of a modern white LED. The 519A is (to me) the flashlight LED that’s closest to sunlight [which can be quite boring if you want it spectacular in any way].
The binning seems to be good. I have each two lights with 3500K and 4000K, and three lights with 5000K. I don’t see deviations among the pairs, unlike my 219B lights, where all sw45k D220 look a little different from each other.
No way I’d rip off the dome from a 519A. If I want my world to be rosy, I’d take a sw45k D200 light.
The human brain excels at auto white balance. Differences that are obvious in side-by-side comparison are often undetectable in isolation.
Good to know that, thanks. I have a 219b and a couple of 219c lights. I enjoy their respective CCT, but I’d been wanting something more efficient and it sounds like the 519a fills that spot well. As for dome removal, I saw someone post about removing one in a triplet, leaving the other 2 intact and it balanced out the CCT nicely.
That is true, to a degree. I do have a couple of older lights that have either cold or greenish/yellow tints and it’s painfully obvious even without a compare. There is some zone of comparison as you start to get to a smaller delta on CCT that starts to become a wash. Still, I think once you get to know a particular emitter CCT and have a strong appreciation for it, you’re more apt to notice in usage.
When my eyes adjust to low lighting, my tint perception shifts to yellow-green quite a bit, so I need a significantly rosy emitter to balance it out. I think it's the Purkinje effect.
not a binning issue… tint shift is caused by flip chip design, it can be equalized with Tir optics, they blend the beam.
dedoming 519a does eliminate the tint shift in the corona of the hotspot.
At the cost of a smaller hotspot with irregular margins, and 13% lower output. Also lowers the CCT by about 1000K and lowers the DUV by about –0.0030…
sw45k DUV is about –0.0100
519a dedomed DUV is about –0.0040
as far as efficiency of 519a, depends what you compare it to:
examples in a V11r:
5000K LH351d 280 lumens
4500K 519a 260 lumens, is 7% less than LH351d
dedomed 4500K 519a 230 lumens, (becomes 3400K), and is 12% less than domed
Personally not a fan of dedomed 519a, imo it damages the quality of the beam. I do use 519a w dome ON, in V11r, because its large dome is more compatible with that reflector. dedomed 519a in V11r makes a shadow ring in the spill worse… similar to sw45k, but the sw45k is more pink and has a cleaner hotspot perimeter.
look at the beam profile w dome (the wall photo bottom right):
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and without dome:
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compare to the beam profile of sw45k:
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still a shadow in the spill, but not as bad as dedomed 519a
the 519a dedomed is 18% brighter than sw45k. But I dont use Max output, so brightness is not a motivating factor, for me. Or if brightness is traded for runtime, 18% more battery life is not motivating, for me, since I use rechargeable batteries, I have unlimited runtime.
imo, efficiency is a red herring, a hold over from the days when people used disposable batteries and did runtime tests to get some idea how long their disposable battery might last.
I choose the LED that gives me the best beam profile, with a Tint I like.
I do not care for the 519a domed 4500K, too much “green” for my preferences. otoh, I like the 519a domed 5700K, its my goto for daylight white.
No. Flip chip design has nothing to do with tint shift. The flip chip is responsible only for the fact that the conductors do not fit to the outside of the crystal.
Tint shift is caused by a lens on the crystal - dome - that collects a lot of light from the ends of the crystal.
Domeless leds have no tint shift.
ok, got any links to support your opinion?
see this post:
and look at this XP-G3:
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fwiw, the intergrated DUV is –0.0014, but that is the average across the beam
Shure, did you read what I wrote?
Dome on the led is the reason of tint shift.
Domeless leds don’t have tint shift - example any xpl-hi, xhp35-hi, xhp50.3 hi and so on.
And if you properly dedome even xhp50.2 with ‘slice and dice’ you can get rid of tint shift. Read about it.
Some of hicri leds with dome have not big tint shift but domeless leds doesn’t have any.
There are flat LEDs with significant tint shift like E21A (high CCT) and Optisolis, in both case it’s because the phosphor area is larger than the LED chip and the rays going trough that extra thickness of phosphors on the sides have a different color than the rest.
Thank you, totally agree. And, the E21a is a flip chip.
My impression is that flip chips have phosphor on the sides that emit a different color, so in a reflector, we get a corona that is a different color than the center.
here is a light that I modded to 519a (also a flip chip design). I saw green in the corona (more than the photo shows):
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so I intalled a pebbled Tir and now the tint is the same across the beam:
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Here is an sw45k (not a flip chip), in another Ti3, I like it, no need for a blending optic:
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