Forum rules apply to all BLF members, Yes even when they complain about China Sellers who are also BLF members.

Buy / Sell Budget Dealer Experiences
21

The slamming of vendors is out of control lately. Some of the comments sound as if they come from a 13 year old, others are just off the chart.

If you go back about 2 1/2 years in the threads, you see Wallbuy’s getting slammed.
They were the Devil some members would say, “I’ll never buy from them again”
They did some good things for this forum, and they made some mistakes. But finally they gave up on trying to appease us.

Then FastTech came on the scene and they were declared to be “Better than sliced bread” and they were dang good for quite a spell.
Then Vaping came along and they had to more than double their work force. Suddenly flashlight customers weren’t “quite” as important and some problems came to pass. They are still my #1 in terms of follow thru. YMMV

Now it is another vendor that is getting more than they deserve in the shaming dept.

One thing you have to give the Chinese, they don’t ban customers after having had to suffer abusive emails, public shaming like this forum, etc.
If any of you have sold anything on Ebay, you know that the first time a customer screws you, you ban them.
But these vendors come back for more and try to please, try to earn business. Imagine trying to run a business where you are gonna lose 90% of disputes from Paypay, you are out the product, the shipping and the money.
Sure, some of the refunds are legitimate, but a Whole lot of them are not.
Scummers who prey on budget dealers just because they can have only to remember this “Karma is a Bitch” You know who you are.

But to hear some of these questionable rants and they always either start of finish with “I’ll never do business with them again”
2 weeks later they say they placed a big order and “They better not screw it up THIS time or I’m filing another Paypay dispute”
Again, don’t buy from them, More product for me and the other members who “get it” and measure the risks and when problems do arise that they deal with it like adults and usually resolve the matter without having to come here to Grandstand.

Here’s the point. If you can’t deal with late shipments and flashlights that may need some fiddling,that may have parts come loose (remember these vendors are half way across the globe from North America, so a lot of shaking is going to occur.)
Then do your self, and all of us a favor and buy from a closer/higher priced vendor. Stop buying overseas. Do it.

Finally, It would be great to have a Private area for PMS, for those who need to rant to have a space that does not clog up the main board and cause such trouble.
Maybe a sticky to direct complaints to that area. Put an instruction in the signup info when a new member joins.

That’s the view from my window, your view is what you make it.
Thanks for the read.
Later,
Keith

22

As long as people aren’t breaking the rules I want to hear about who is and isn’t a good seller.

Im sick of being ripped off by Chinese companies (yes, only Chinese companies so far) and the only way these crooks will lose business is through the freedom of speech that our forefathers fought for.

Chris

23

I think some of the increase in vendor complaints has come from the increase of vendors that come here, plus the increase in overall sales from vendors here, such as group buys and vendor threads showing sale items. That has increased tremendously over the years, so naturally, the number of complaints has increased as well. I bet that the actual percentage of complaints versus the amount of sales, has not increased or decreased. Usually, it maintains a steady rate.

I personally think if things get out of control, it is up to our admin to take care of it as he sees fit and of course, we will always disagree on that, just like we disagree on everything else. The only way for two people to not disagree, is to never meet. The only way for people to not be vocal, is to never be around another human being. Any time there is interaction of any kind there will be a mixture of problems. It is what it is and if the admin is ok with it, then we can deal with it, or we can go somewhere else. Fairly simple.

EDIT: Maybe threads that come up with complaints, should be dumped into the actual rating threads for vendors. Maybe that might be a better answer. The rating threads are there for a reason. Maybe it could be done, but it would take more work on our admin's part.

24

This is a pretty good idea. I can’t very easily move threads, but it’s easy to create links to existing threads in the rating threads, and I can even put the link in the first post if needed. I don’t mind doing that if users PM me a link.

25

As long as someone is honestly relating their experiences I want to hear them; good or bad. But I agree that being ugly to any group over one individual from it is going a bit too far. When you lose your head or lose your cool, you lose the audience and lose the debate

I’m an advocate of free speech too, but what many forget is that even if a forum is open to the public it is still privately owned, and the owner can set whatever rules they want to much the same as you and I do in our own homes. The right to free speech does not ever extend into someone else’s private domain. Nobody’s thoughts are being censored here when we’re simply being asked to remain civilized with our comments

I’m happy with the balance here and with most of the people here too. I would not feel this way if things were allowed to turn into a bash-fest. There’s too much of that available online already and it’s nice to be free of it here. Good Job SB!

Phil

26

Before any user gets too pissy about one complaint or another, think about the discussion of cloned, copied and counterfeit lights, as well as knives, are routinely discussed and advocated here, don’t get too smug about a supplier or source country problem. You accept a certain level of uncertainty that decreases as the price goes down. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

27

Don’t be too annoying and don’t be too easily annoyed.

28

Amen. Or hurrah. Whichever. Can’t even get agreement on which cheer-word to use, maybe, but we can agree on light being worth improving, for everyone.

29

Yes, hearing all the complaining gets old. Use Paypal and handle it yourself, no need to tell everyone here about your problems. Some amount of complaining is good but when it just goes on and on it gets old. There are some members here who only start threads complaining about vendors, shipping time, fakes, not up to spec., non delivery, etc… I even complain some times but I say what happened and move on and let Paypal handle it. Out of 15 to 20 vendors I have bought from, only about 2 or 3 have never screwed me at one time or another. Have many successful orders from the same vendors after getting screwed. Fellows……it’s part of doing business in our hobby.

30


+1 +1 +1

The more often we as individuals show kindness and restraint the less often a moderator will be called upon.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I consider some of the Chinese people and some of the Chinese vendors friends. Even though they never say anything I know seeing these kind of things must be hurtful to them.

They have a very tall order to fill here at BLF. Quality product, ultra low price, impeccable customer service and must speak our language though none of use speak a word of theirs.

Is it really that hard to show some mercy.




31

Sometimes the people who rant and rave in excess about a given vendor aren’t really BLF members per se; they’re just random people who don’t even necessarily use flashlights that Googled for “VendorX rating”. We have a pretty high search ranking for that sort of query when it comes to the Chinese vendors, and so they sign up to vent here and then never come back. So try not to get to worked up about it, and don’t egg them on. (There’s a funny idiom in Spanish that translates to “Don’t pull their cord”, which is an allusion to those annoying wind-up toys that spin or dance or make noise. In other words, “Don’t get ’em going!)

32

So true. I personally know a Chinese guy who lives and works far away from home in a very xenophobic area, and one day he confided in me: “I am so SICK of people calling me Chinese”, references to the Asian eyes, etc.

I don’t condone dishonest business practices in any way. But many of the Chinese sales representatives are totally capable of understanding innuendos and indirect hate speech, and they don’t deserve that one little bit. Fortunately this doesn’t happen very frequently here, but when it does I step in as soon as it is brought to my attention.

33

That is so sad. For some reason this is a factor of humanity, perhaps an attitude about anyone not known to themselves but more likely the sad practice of looking down on others as a way to elevate themselves.

34

Not aimed at anyone in particular
So an overseas :stuck_out_tongue: vendor scams you when you buy a $20 light, you then come in here and run a hate campain, now you pay $120 local for the same light and come on here complaining about the rip off local merchants.
Sometimes life just sucks, settle it with Paypal, let it be known on here about it, just the information no ranting on for weeks, and move on.

Cheers David