Help me find a 5000k, rosey (high R9) emitter LED with max 1000 lumens!

I got me one of those Nitecore NU20 CRI and WOW I have never been so enamored with a tint before. I’m now obsessed and want to swap the emitters of all the headlamps I have (and some I will have) to Nichias or similar!

I’d like to switch the emitters of the below:

Imalent HR20W MAX 1000 Lumens
Skilhunt H03R MAX 1000 Lumens
Thrunite TH20 MAX 540 Lumens

I have a wishlist of what I want in the new emitters in order of importance.

1) 540/ 1000 MAX Lumens (or as close as possible)
2) 4500/ 5000K tint
3) HIGH R9 value
4) High CRI
5) Little to no degredation of throw distance

As far as I have read (I’m new to being a flashaholic), NO Nichia 219 will go to the maximum lumens I want. I don’t necessarily need a Nichia. I’m open to any other brands/ models (Cree Easywhites?) as long as they have 5000K rosey tint that hits close to my max lumens.

I’m pretty sure some of the items on my wishlist may cancel each other out. Overall, I can throw the specs out if my eyes see a nice neutral, roesey tint with maximum lumens!

Thanks all!

PS I tried a workaround. I got some of those lighting gels and found a few tints that give me close to the tint I want (and any other tint under and over the sun). I was just going to cut little circles out and slap them over the glass BUT it reduces my total output :/.

I hope the Nichia 319 will be available in high CRI soon.
That should reach 900 Lumen on 3 Amperes, i estimate (hope).

Well, like treoneo i have a couple of headlamps with Cree XM-L2 in them, and i’m also looking for upgrading to high CRI.
But i don’t want to overdrive Nichia 219C in them, since they’re quite powerful (2.5 Amperes or something).

Good point about the medium mode that is usually considered too high.
Indeed the visual difference is not as big as the drop in efficiency.

but about your 319A set up, is it better than an XM-L2 regarding the tint and colour rendition?

The Cree XP-L2 is the only 3V (and single Die) LED with 90CRI that is brighter than the Nichia 219C and has the possibility of being rosy (and only high-cri emitters have the possibility of having a high R9 value). You need to get a 3-step or 5-step variant for that (2-step will always be a little yellowish). Unfortunately those aren’t available yet. So, you just need to wait. Also, you will never get the same brightness and throw as before in these lights. High-cri will always be less efficient compared to standard cool-white LEDs. So either the light gets dimmer or you reduce the runtime by increasing the drivers output.

You will also need to use a diffuser if you don’t want a yellow spot.

I’d skip the hi-cri and go for a xp-g2 s4 3D. Maybe a bit less lumens but with decent (rosy)tint, throw and efficiency.

Last week I’ve had an extensive PM conversation with treoneo in which he asked basically the same questions that he asks here again, and he now gets the same answers that I gave in this thread again.

Sounds a bit double?

He also asked on cpf and was given the same general sort of answers. I mean I get it - ask everyone and get all the input you can, right? But at this point I think its pretty well covered. There is no “magic bullet” emitter that offers max output, high CRI (especially R9) and great tint.

…but there will be when a high CRI 319A hits the market.

djozz I thank you for all your time and efforts in the extensive conversation we had over PM. While rather informative, I still hadn’t received the answers I was looking for. So rather than continuing to press you for more information, I thought I’d crowdsource (in hindsight something I should have done from the start) but get even more specific.

Yes emarkd I asked the same question over at CPF, but the thread did not get many answers. Moreover I actually thought I posted that original query in BLF (BLF seems to have more active and friendly users) and when I realized I posted in the wrong forum (CPF), I stated so over there, and posted here.

So my apologies if I ruffled any feathers. I am a newbie in flashlights although pretty tech minded and pick things up quickly. Also when I dive into a new hobby or interest, I like to go deep right away. I also know what I want/ like. Very specifically as you can see already. I don’t have the kind of income where I can experiment with many flashlights and emitters and can make a mistake and just buy another. I have one headlamp (for now). So before I take the emitter out and swap it, I want to be absolutely sure of all options!

That being said, what would make it easy is to know, how high these emitters in lumens go. Problem is anywhere I go to buy one, they don’t list max lumens. How can I even shop for these things without knowing this info? If not, I’m back here asking all these questions :/.

Have you seen djozz’s LED chart comparing the output across varying current/voltage?

Yes I have! While I appreciate djozz’s in depth analytics, it’s all a bit over my head!

Although, you just gave me a clue. Do I have to determine the current/ voltage of my headlamp to get the total lumens output of any given emitter? Also many emitters don’t list lumen output.

Yes, that could give you a very close approximation of the output to expect with different emitters. Note that djozz’s tests are of total luminous flux, not out the front(OTF) lumens. You get a bit of lumen loss from each reflector or optic as well as lenses.

You just have to find spec sheets that list roundabout what lumens to expect at their rated current. They typically run them very lightly compared to how folks around here do things, 2 amps vs 5+amps per single emitter. A lot of BLFers have done tests of the more common(and even uncommon) LEDs out there that you can check for more real-world specs vs factory specs.

I would like to know where i could purchase this exact emitter. TIA

Hmm. I’m still confused. There seems to be a lot of formulas to get the information I require. It’s not as straightforward as I had hoped.

I have an Imalent HR20W. How in God’s name do I find out which emitters will work with it to give close to the max of 1000 lumens?

I fear I will be back to square one which will be people suggesting “hey use this because I think it’s good” (not giving max lumens or telling me how they figure out max lumens).

I am completely lost :frowning:

Most emitters do list lumen output in their datasheet, but it’ll be at 350mA or some other very low drive current. Because we enthusiasts aren’t really using these things as the manufacturer intended. So yeah, to get a real-world idea of what a given emitter will do at a given drive current, you need enthusiasts testing like djozz or ta do. But even then its just an approximation. Things like lens treatments and heat soak and reflector finish/material will all soak up some light, so a “perfect” situation measured in a sphere on a shop bench is not the same thing as you get installed in a light. The only way to be sure is to buy your own testing gear and test your lights after you build them.

That said, as much fun as chasing lumens may be, most of us hit a point in this hobby where we stop prioritizing that so much. If you really want nice tint, get nice tint, even if its only 700 lumens (or 200…). Due to how our eyes respond to light, a big increase in lumens only results in a small perceived change in brightness anyway. And like you’re finding, high lumens often comes with big tradeoffs. So build yourself a lumen monster with no concern for tint, its fun really and you will enjoy it, but also build a nice light with amazing, beautiful tint even though its only got average numbers. Then see which one you actually want to use.

So that light the Imalent HR20 comes with an XP-L HI correct? The HR20 likely doesn’t have a boost driver so the highest voltage it can achieve would be 4.2 volts of a fresh 18650. So with a fresh battery at 4.2volts you’re looking at 900 lumens depending on bin then with losses factored in 800~ or so. From that I would guesstimate the XP-G2 would do 700~ then a 219C would be around 550~. There are other things to factor in like forward voltage and I have no personal knowledge of how that driver works. I’m new at this, but you’ll get the hang of how LEDs work after a while.

What emarkd said about perceived brightness is true. As you get a brighter light, it becomes increasingly difficult to acknowledge a change in brightness. I say to each their own. If you want a bright light no compromises go for it. I’m an in the middle kind of guy and like bright things, but also prefer neutral tints. I’m not willing to drop lumens for 90+ CRI, but anything above 5000k looks awful to me.

Welcome to BLF Treoneo, be careful, as this forum could be very addictive.
Limited only to a single LED with ~3V for direct LED swap?
Or mods allowed?

- Clemence

Here you go:

Thank you.