High End TV Rabbit Hole / Display Tech is Bonkers

By “properly” I guess I mean that they captured what they intended to and audiences liked the results. So if something is obscured in shadow or out of focus, it was intended to be.

IMO wide color gamut and hdr should be a means to an end, with the end being a faithful recreation of the original. I don’t think you need to hit max nits in order for a disk to be considered reference quality. If you’re talking about finding a demo disk to impress the uninitiated, then yea a more modern film with crazy colors and highlights might impress them more but I don’t consider that inherently better.

Just watched the season ender of Law and Order.
Most/all(?) of it was done hand held – with no image stabilization.
In fact I’m sure they added extra “shaky cam” for artistic reasons.
Shot from like 2 feet from the actors face.
On the new 85 it was nearly unwatchable. Barf city for any motion sensitive folk.
Does no one actually screen this stuff before it goes out?
All the Best, Jeff

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My thought is to have source material that will allow the full capabilities of the display to be demonstrated. I am not arguing that classic movies are not “good”. I have a large number of movies that would fit that description. Just that there is better material to demo a high quality 4k hdr wide color gamut display. If those characteristics are not there, then no one, initiated or uninitiated can see them. I consider most of the National Geographic/PBS/BBC nature discs (Planet Earth Series for instance) to be in the category that I use. Not that I want a steady diet of them… So I am not arguing at all about what is “better” for enjoyment or appreciation of artistic intent, rather something to really show off the capabilities of that new display that you got.

Both types will benefit from the technology, no question about it. But if you want to see what that display can do there is no substitute of something taken with 4K HDR wide color gamut cameras as the source and using high production values. It has been my experience that that kind of source never fails to impress anyone (regardless of their experience level) when displayed on a well calibrated set.

I’m currently playing a video game that has intentionally shaky video for the cutscenes.
The game is Metaphor: ReFantazio.
The shakiness bothers me a little.
I think the game would be better without the shakiness. :man_shrugging:

Disclaimer - before I continue down this rabbit hole, I want to emphasize that it is largely academic. If you buy a new TV these days, regardless of whether it is for the more clearly valid reasons of getting a larger screen, or getting the benefits of HDR and wide color gamuts, or getting a model with better black levels or better brightness than your current model, it is going to be 4K unless it is a relatively small screen. Of the 36 TV’s Best Buy currently has for sale in the 50 inch size class, only 1 is not 4K.

On the other hand, I would not buy a new TV specifically to get 4K, nor would I worry about spending extra money on 4K content unless you have a very big TV or sit very close.

Sure. And to do so, let’s all forget Jurassic Park. That was a quick anecdote, but the fact is it was a visual spectacle even in DVD resolution, and while it did look better at 1080, which helped my enjoyment to a degree, the returns diminish the further resolution increases.

If we’re going to be scientific about TV purchasing decisions, it is probably worth having recourse to scientific sources, rather than marketing sources. The marketers who plan Best Buy’s and Costco’s displays are very happy to have people inspect 6 foot wide TV’s from 3 feet away. You’re not supposed to think about the fact that your couch is 3+ times that far away, and the pixels are 3 times harder to see. The physiologists, on the other hand, have published their own work putting the resolution of the human eye at around 60 cycles per degree, and when you do the geometry on that, you get the charts in the RTings link I posted above.

https://www.cis.rit.edu/people/faculty/montag/vandplite/pages/chap_9/ch9p1.html

For a more personal scientific test, which I have also done, use high quality still images, and resize them, and view them from distances appropriately proportionate to screen size and resolution. If you correct for all of the factors, you can try this out on a regular TV monitor.

For example, I know from that if I view a 1080 image on my 24 inch, 1080 monitor from about 3 feet, it is roughly comparable to viewing on a 75 inch TV at 10 feet. It is very easy to compare DVD (480) and HD (1080) content this way by resizing a 1080 image, and comparing it to the original. Yes, you can see an easily discernible difference in this ideal circumstance, much more easily than with moving video, and you can be certain the source content is the same. Depending on your image editor (I use GIMP), you can also do what real TV’s do and re-upscale the 480 image back to 1080, reducing the perception of pixelation. You can even sharpen it, improving the edge acuity. Neither upscaling nor sharpening recover the missing detail that the original 1080 image has, but they can reduce the perceived visual deficit.

You can even simulate, if not the field of view, at least the pixel angle of a 4K screen by doubling the distance and again using appropriately scaled copies of the same image (eg - 1080 and 540 images at 6 feet on my 24in monitor have equivalent resolution to 4K and 1080 images on 75 inch TV at 10 feet). Of course, you can do this on a TV, too. It’s just not as easy to control the viewing conditions and switch back and forth.

To get to the point, what this test shows to my 20:20 vision is the RTings chart is effectively correct. I will clarify, however, that the perception of edge acuity can slightly exceed resolution. Comparing a 4K TV to a 1080 TV sized and positioned for a common 30 degree field of view won’t reveal more detail in the content, although there still might be a slight perception, under ideal conditions, or better sharpness of certain features, especially text.

Enlarge the screen or move close to replicate a 40 degree viewing angle per the THX recommendations, on the other hand, and the difference between 1080 and 4K content becomes more readily discernible.

But how many people actually have their living rooms setup like a THX theater? That would mean if your couch is 10 feet from the wall, you have a 100 inch screen

Just FYI, the Sony B9 has a reset settings option in each “picture mode”.
So that after I FUBAR the settings, I can get back to something sane.
I’m in the process of setting up a picture mode for the various source types and room conditions.
All the Best, Jeff

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Honestly, seems to me like it might be a good idea to show one digitally shot Native 4k film and one perfectly restored classic when showing a 4K TV. I think both showcase something amazing that the format has to offer. To my mind, a restored classic is just as impressive and just as big of a showcase of the value of 4k, but I get why you would want to show the upper limits too.

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shakey cam should be illegal :nauseated_face:

:point_up_2: :point_up_2: :point_up_2: :point_up_2:

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Camera shake can be used effectively in limited circumstances, like in Saving Private Ryan or Children of Men.

But it tends to get overused as a very cheap special effect. Star Trek had already made it a cliche in this use even by the timethat show advanced to The Next Generation. But even those of us who love Star Trek recognized it as an often cheesy compromise. Worse is when excessive camera shake gets used primarily to confuse the viewer and distract from poorly implemented visual effects.