The On The Road(OTR) flashlights seem to copy Olights exclusively right down to the excellent pocket/hat clip. Internally, they do differ. I have a couple of OTR’s and they haven’t given me a moment of grief. On top of that, I bought them ON SALE! Kind of hard to find an Olight at what I consider a good sale price. C’mon, they’re both made in China. If OTR can give me a product equal or superior to that of Olight for significantly less, I’m in!
How would anyone posting in this thread feel if you came up with the idea for a light or any other project that you really believed in, invested your savings or took out a loan. Formed a LLC, Spent a year developing it, talking to suppliers, designing it, marketing it, bought and made a website etc etc and after a year or two of work its finally available for sale. And people love it! You cant keep it on the shelves! All your hard work is finally justified. Soon you wont have to eat ramen anymore
Then three weeks later its avilable on aliexpress
How would you feel? Would you be flattered by the imitation? Would you say “wow I’m glad I wasnt able to afford a patent lawyer sp I didnt stifle innovation”? “I’m glad people who cant afford to buy my product can now pay someone else for all my blood, sweat and tears”?
There’s someone in the community developing a driver for the past year at least, in his spare time, that aims to fill a much needed hole in what’s available off the shelf currently. His biggest fear? That BLF is going to take it and have it cloned in China. So much so that he questioned whether he should even continue. You want to know what stifles innovation? The attitudes and innovations shared in this thread. You dont care about innovation. You care about your wallet and you want to save a couple bucks at the expense of the designer’s livelihood.
i don;t think it matters
1. the market is small, no one cares enough to have REALLY good design, or to sue a copier
2. the buyers are usually aficionados and will not be fooled.
3. they mostly look the same anyway, it isn;t like flashlights are ‘the new phones’ or — a car
4. also think there IS flattery in imitation
- i doubt rolex really cares, every fake is free advertising
- joe on the street can;t tell it is fake
- all he thinks is “Geez, everyone seems to have a rolex, maybe i need one too”
Please be careful to not get into the political side of this issue. And if people get too worked up over this topic we’ll have to close it at any rate.
I would buy a knock-off of a Spyderco…….butt not iffn it has a spider/tick engraved on it.
I even saw one that had the
Golden, Colorado
U.S.A. Earth
on the blade! That constitutes total effrontery in addition to thievery. Shouldn’t be rewarded.
You’re getting caught up in minutiae and not really presenting a coherent point. OK, so one example of advanced technology is a little more complicated than a lightbulb. That doesn’t negate my argument that the patent system provides a hanging apple for inventors to operate under, a little security for their business.
I find it highly offensive when, for example, people claim that just because some miracle drug only costs 25 cents per pill to manufacture, consumers are entitled to nearly free medicine. Those pills may contain 25 cents of materials, but the first pill cost $25 million to produce. When people don’t understand the value of this kind of labor and just only buy the bootlegs, that company that tried to help people by inventing cures to diseases is going to go out of business. However you or other people in the thread want to rationalize it, the world would be down one cure inventor.
My favorite hobby is inventing and designing products. Macka17’s quote is all too well known to me.
I straight up spend days or months modeling in Solidworks from my imagination. I wish I could share them with the world, but I know the only person to benefit would be the thieves that have zero talent or morels.
Shoppers don’t care about my costs, they think the only fair price is the lowest one.
I just wanted to give a glimpse into the consequences of buying stolen ideas. It stops innovation.
Since patents only exist because of government enforcement, and most of the infringement is across national lines, the topic is by nature political.
I’m sure he would be honored, as long as the “fakes” were of decent quality. If they’re also significantly cheaper, he’d probably buy a few. I know I would. People don’t just design new things for the purpose of making all the bucks. Sometimes, it’s just because they want that thing to exist. There are even people who do great works and give them away ON PURPOSE. Talk to ToyKeeper some time. Look at the Gnu Public License and all of the works that are licensed under that. Then realize that there are other licenses that are even more “free” than that one. Furthermore, there are huge industries that thrive on developing and maintaining “free” stuff.
- Patents aren’t inherently part of this thread topic.
- It is possible to talk about things that have a “political” side, without reaching over to that side in the conversation.
- sb56637 is the owner and Administrator of this site. When he says “Don’t get political” he can and will enforce that rule.
Lotta people are getting all worked up, but nobody seems to have answered this question.
What, exactly, are we talking about?
Copying a brand X light and selling it as a brand X light?
Copying a C8-style light that looks mostly like a C8?
What?
You buy a C8, you’ll get good stuff (Convoy, Sofirn), or absolute garbage (pretty much any C8-ish light on Amazon).
Most people (normal people, not the likes of us) wouldn’t know a C8 from a P30 from a VG10. They just see a short stubby “plunger” type flashlight, and probably have no idea what “fins” or “knurling” is.
Now, cloning, say, a C8+ (Simon orders 1000 units, the factory makes 5000, sells the 4000 extra with crap LEDs and drivers and the like on AX), that’s downright fraud. But a C8-looking light with “close enough” physical features… just how “different” do you need to make the light so that it’s not “infringing”?
People are arguing over the answers without fully defining the parameters of the question.
Bonus: someone tell me what’s the “difference” between, say, an S2+, BLF A6, TO46R, and similar tubelights. Again: tube, shiny end, clicky end. Who’s “infringing” on whom?
I don’t think the OP meant counterfeiting, just design theft.
yeah, maybe more than just a blue bezel!
Lots of wishful thinking here. Do you think people do not deserve to be compensated for their time and hard work? I know—you didn’t say it. But you’re doing a lot of speaking for other people. It would be hypocritical if you said I couldn’t infer what you believe. Free software is often referred to as open source to clarify that “free as in beer” is a separate concept, so you are already talking out of your rear end. Life costs money. Inventing costs money. Tooling up a factory and employing people to produce a product cost money. Not paying your bills has a tendency of ruining lives. Lose their house, ruin their credit… Lots of people commit suicide because of bankruptcy. But at least they can feel honored that their idea was copied by lazy people who couldn’t be bothered to come up with their own idea or spend money on R&D, right?
Hall monitor.
The way I see it, it’s not design theft after the original product has been released in public. It is an aesthetic copy or “clone” but not theft. Now, if it was “copied” by the same factory that makes the “original” under contract, or by a corporate spy who saw it somehow internally before release, then it is definitely theft. Then again, sometimes even high profile brand names will “allow” the factory to sell “seconds” under a different brand, in exchange for better pricing on the “originals” which are held to a higher quality control standard. So, there is precedent for even that. And it makes sense, because if they had to be rejected and scrapped, the cost of that would have to be paid by the brand. The factory isn’t going to “eat” the scrap for free.
Nah, just another opinionated BLF member. Please forgive me if there was any offence. I didn’t mean it. :innocent:
Fair enough. Anyone got examples?
Only one I can think of was the rather blatant rip-off by UTorch for one of Manker’s lights… soon to be many of Manker’s lights. :laughing:
Hell, even the drivers had “MANKER” printed on ’em!
And yet people were buying UTorch lights left’n’right, in response to M’s MAP policy, no discounts, etc.
Me, I don’t have any Manker nor UTorch lights, so I ain’t got a dog in that fight.
Zing… right over my head. Whut?