I think the point is to become educated enough so that you cut your losses and throw the batteries out before they have a chance to vent or explode. I’ve tossed one for getting far hotter than others on a “normal” charge and a couple for funny behavior (reaching recharge capacity quickly, then not working for long in the light before dimming, recharge capacity again reached quickly). If you heed the warning signs you should practically never really have an “event” except for “user error” problems I think.
Plus, even if you aren’t worried about “venting”, whats the point in keeping cheap cells around that you can get for $5-9, and if you use laptop pulls $1.25-$2? That’s essentially the cost of a non-rechargeable set of batteries (or a small fraction if you use laptop pulls), so dump the annoyance of faster discharge and time wasted carting back for recharging as they show worrying signs and you also get rid of the risk of ruining equipment/starting fires all in one and you are still far far ahead in cost savings.
I’ve had no brand name cells I bought new even show any bad signs ever, they were Trustfires, no names and one old used pack pull Sony.
And yes, by “tossed” I mean given to Home Depot recycling or some type of recycling.
I had an armytek wizard pro with a crazy driver problem kill an xtar 3100 about two weeks ago. The cell was less than a year old. Oh well. It reads a 4.13 charge but won’t charge and all the lights I use it in are very dim. Really strange.
What did it do exactly to kill the battery? Possibly it fried the protection circuit?…but again, especially since you put that on your head, I don’t see a point in saving a buck at the cost of increasing the risk of venting/explosion while in a more vulnerable/costly spot.
I guess. What I described in the post is what it does. It charges for about 3 seconds, says it’s fully charged at 4.13, then anytime I put it in a light I just get a very dim output. I would assume it has something to do with the protection circuit. It was weird, the driver was acting crazy, and I would unscrew the tailcap and screw it back in… I found that it would flash in extremely bright in a turboish mode for a fraction of a second when I did that, so I unscrewed it rapidly and did a few quick flashes in a row. Then the battery started to behave the way it currently does.
I have seen lead acid batteries explode in cars. I have seen people burned by that acid. Burned so bad you thought it couldn't be possible and you wouldn't recognize them after they "healed".
I have seen a laptop go "up in smoke", right in a person's lap. Burned the person severely.
I have seen a NiMH blow open. No flames, just puff up, blow open and smoke.
I have seen an Alkaline split open, but not really any smoke.
I have never seen a Li-ion cell, like in a flashlight go up, but I have seen the damage.
In every case, except the Laptop, it was error due to inexperience, negligence and neglect. The laptop was faulty from the Mfg. No way to know it was going to blow.
I would "imagine", that most cases are from lack of knowledge/negligence from the user and from Mfg defects or lack of responsiblity from the Mfg to produce "safe products", like chargers and "fire" cells that are anything from used to abused and relabeled.
Are Li-ions truly safe? I still believe the safest is Alkaline, followed by NiMH and I will never fully feel safe carrying anything with any type Lithium in it, including cell phones. I try not to carry anything electronic on my person. I'm old fashioned and don't plan on "getting with the program", whatever "the program" is. I do use Li-ion for testing, but I don't use them for personal use, other than the wretched cell phone.
I never had any problems about an explosive cell so far
I guess the only worst case would be trying to charge old laptop 18650 cells and they get too hot to touch and that’s all. Not even venting or exploding
4 out of 6 cells got hot and are now kept somewhere waiting to be recycled… I’m not sure if I should even risk trying to save the other 2 18650 cells I salvaged off an old lappie by charging it.
maybe I’ll charge it… but I’ll do it in a safe open area by monitoring it afar (and hope I get to save these 2 for future light needs)
What is the risk of using an unprotected battery and the current demand is too high? Does the light just not get any brighter or does the battery strain itself?
I had a Trustfire flame 16350 go dead just sitting on the shelf a couple of years ago. Tried resetting the protection circuit with no luck. I ended up getting rid of all my Chinese cells. Today I only buy quality cells from Panasonic, Sanyo, and Samsung. Thankfully, I've never had a battery vent in the 3 or 4 years I've been into Li-ion cells. But then again, I'm extremely careful and monitor all my cells regularly.
>>>>Today I only buy quality cells from Panasonic, Sanyo, and Samsung.
Ditto, but the problem is sometimes knowing that the cells are real or unused. There are a lot of fake labels floating around out there.
I have changed to almost 100% pack pulls, both new and used, from Home Depot recycle bins, ebay and from friends (and a few other sources). I can pretty much guarantee that Lenovo or HP aren’t buying fakes, so the cells in their packs are most probably 100% real. A little extra work, cracking the packs and getting them out, but that’s half the fun.
I do have some name-brand Panasonic and Samsung and Sanyo li-ions with Chinese-applied protection circuits for use in multi-battery lights, but whether the circuit will actually work when the time comes is another big question mark. Afterall, who knows where the protection circuits come from and how reliable they are. They certainly are not UL listed. :–0 I can tell you the protection circuit in the battery that blew up didn’t work.
I’m also VERY gun shy about charging and always do it outside or in a room with a closed door like bathroom. Haven’t had one single issue since the explosion.
ok… just pulled apart an old drill pack out of a bin, and on the positive end, there was this dried up rust colored stuff. The cells worked just fine, but I do not trust them, so they are going back. has anyone had this happen before?
I had a few (already junk before I started) ooze that nasty crap out when I was learning how not to add solder blobs. Never had any do that in actual use, though, and I've loaded a few so hard they got hot enough to shrivel up the heatshrink wrappers but never vented.
I had a near miss (or near hit?) involving lithium ions October last year:
I wanted to get the tail cap current of my Sky Ray King using 4 x Sanyo UR18650FMs rated at 2600 mAh but I could not remove the PCB in its bottom part (damaged screws) so I tried in improvise by using a copper plate to connect the four positive ends of the 18650s and use it and the flashlight body to connect it with the head of the light and my DMM to get the readings.
While doing it, the metal connecting the positive ends accidentally got in contact with the body. The SRK body instantly became very hot that I dropped it to the floor (good it was made of wooden tiles) and in the process disconnecting the circuit. No the Sanyo Lithium Ions did not explode or vent but the SRK springs connecting the negative end of the batteries melted and the wires and the copper plate were ‘welded’ into each other. Good thing (I guess) that copper and aluminum is not easy to weld and the shock of the drop was enough to cut the circuit. Otherwise the results could have been worse.
The Sanyos survived the near miss and they are still up and running. With my recent acquisition of the Opus C3100 through our group buy, their average capacity readings is 2394 mAh.
