Is there any sign before a li-ion battery is going to... BOOM!!

[fishinfool]

@bibihang

@Don

Stuff can be replaced, your eyes and lungs can't.

This is real. Okay so for whatever I smell it in a strange way or something strange come out from the cell I should throw it as far as I could, or attach a grenade on it and blast the cell into ashes.

So what exactly is the strange smell come out from the cell and what bad effect does it bring to us?

@Don

But as I said long ago, you are more likely to be killed by a dead fish dropped by a seagull in the Sahara Desert than by a lithium ion cell going bad.

LOL! I saw someone put this sentence as his signature

That be me! :bigsmile:

Time to update my sig.

[NightCrawl]

On multiple cell flashlights, wouldnt the protection circuit prevent an kinda empty battery from being loaded with >5A?

[Streamer]

[quote=bibihang]
I am using Trustfire 3000mah Flames in my DRY now, and recently some members here reported that the 3000mah is not reliable…quote]

Where did you read these reports? I recall reading that these batteries tested out just fine by one of our reviewers not long ago.

[bibihang]

@newbie74

Ok.

Since I started the conversation that led to the now famous Don quote, it must be said that we were talking about single cell applications. If you have multiple cells t is a different story because one cell may try to charge the other and the currents involved may escalate, causing increased temperatures and real explosion risk.

Converting to examples, the rare exploding cell phones do so while charging. But people here openly joke about multiple cell high current systems being "pipe bombs". As for me, I stick to single cell flashlights, rest my chargers on no flammable shelves (granite) and toss cells at the first sign something is wrong.

I consider signs something is wrong (this is a very non scientific list):

• Low voltage protection has kicked in and is not reset by a normal charger;
• Any sign of corrosion;
• Any change in dimension (if the cell no longer fits or bulges in any place);
• Abnormal charging times (usually cells that lost their ability to keep charge have very short times);

Hope it helps,

Roberto.

Yeah I know it is alot safer staying with single cell flashlight, but now I'm playing around with my DRY while it uses 3 cells, so that's what make me worried, especially some comments here in BLF said that the Trustfire 3000mah Flame doesn't seems to be reliable as the protection failed to kick in...

Some claimed that the Trustfire cell is crap due to its low capacity after their testing, but actually I'm still OK with that, as long as its protection does work and make sure everything is SAFE while having fun with the flashlights.

[bibihang]

@Don

Among other things, hot hydrogen fluoride - which when it gets into your lungs converts itself into hydrofluoric acid. Where it does Bad Things.

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/hydrogenfluoride/recognition.html

Things I Won’t Touch (1) – Corante

It's not exactly good for your eyes either.

Holy... it's deadly!

My girlfriend's father has requested a flashlight, and I recommended him the Kaidomain XM-L C8. I never want to introduce those multi-cell flashlight to a non-flashaholic, because we all know their potential hazard if not being taken care well...

And BTW, I don't understand why the unbalanced cell's voltage in a flashlight will cause one cell charging the other? Isn't that the cells are in series configuration, while charging only take place when it is in parallel confifuration?

[bibihang]

@Streamer

Where did you read these reports? I recall reading that these batteries tested out just fine by one of our reviewers not long ago.

When the Trustfire new Flame just hit Manafont, Stephen Wallace's review seems not bad,
https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/6503

However, after some time some guys have some complaints. All the bad comments are from HKJ review here,
https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/5969

And here is an issue face by Aleister, the protection circuit failed to kick in,
https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/7254


EDIT: Stephen Wallace's Trustfire 3000mah Flame is not from Manafont but provided by someone from Ebay, while my Trustfire 3000mah Flame are bought from Manafont. Not sure if this does matter though (quality variation?).

[HKJ]

[quote=Streamer]

@bibihang

I am using Trustfire 3000mah Flames in my DRY now, and recently some members here reported that the 3000mah is not reliable…quote]

Where did you read these reports? I recall reading that these batteries tested out just fine by one of our reviewers not long ago.

In my test they where fine, but some other people got the same battery but with much lower capacity.

When my to do pile of batteries are lower, I will probably order a new set and do a test more.

[antonkochubey]

@bibihang

And BTW, I don’t understand why the unbalanced cell’s voltage in a flashlight will cause one cell charging the other? Isn’t that the cells are in series configuration, while charging only take place when it is in parallel confifuration?

The charging that occurs in parallel connection is not dangerous, because it’s same direction as charging by a charger, whereby when used in series, emptied cell will get reverse-charged (changing it’s polarity), which often leads to very bad things (venting cell, possibly w/ flames).

[SKIF2]

Just a small safety rule with cheap li-ion.

1. NEVER use them in series. Single use - is probably ok.

2. Never leave them charging "alone" (any battery).

3. Store them in metal boxes or something non-flameable.

I even store all my cells (incl non RCR primary Sanyo Cr123A) in metal boxes... just in case.

Using "trusties" in DRY - is a 50% winning lottery :) It pulls too much A from each battery, and they are in series! Thats like a bomb...

I have some trust 18650, but now with ordering Sky ray king and TR-3T6 I also ordered xtar's 18650 3100 and xtar charger. Better pay $50 more, but feel yourself safe.

[Don]

Here's an example of a cell that should under no circumstances be used.

I had a pile of cells to charge and found this one amongst them. It has been used recently and it most certainly hadn't leaked then - nor did it have a huge dent in the base as it now does. It is getting its contacts taped over and disposed of (Nobody here recycles lithium cells).

Edit: Just found another one that was bouncing between 3.2 and 4.2V on the charger - it was a cell that I knew to be weak anyway. It's now an ex-cell. Those were cells that could have caused trouble down the road and most certainly wouldn't have been much use in a light. Which shows why it is a good idea to keep an eye on your cells.

[Old-Lumens]

@Don

But as I said long ago, you are more likely to be killed by a dead fish dropped by a seagull in the Sahara Desert than by a lithium ion cell going bad.

You are more likely to be injured (not killed) by a Lithium cell than by a dead fish anywhere in the world. There’s quite a few accounts of injuries by Lithium, mostly burns and illness from fumes. I’ve never seen one explode, but I have heard them “fizz”, then pop or leak and emit toxic fumes. The ones I have seen in laptops just started leaking and then smoking and swelling the laptop till it popped, which resulted in bad burns to the owner.

Of course ALL batteries can and have hurt people. Lead acid, NiMH, Alkaline, etc., but Lithium are some of the most toxic and most sensitive.

[keltex78]

@Old-Lumens

@Don

But as I said long ago, you are more likely to be killed by a dead fish dropped by a seagull in the Sahara Desert than by a lithium ion cell going bad.

You are more likely to be injured (not killed) by a Lithium cell than by a dead fish anywhere in the world.

"Statistics from the Tokyo Bureau of Social Welfare and Public Health indicate 20 to 44 incidents of fugu poisoning per year between 1996 and 2006 in Japan (a single incident may involve multiple diners). Each year, these incidents led to between 34 and 64 victims being hospitalized and zero to six deaths, an average fatality rate of 6.8%."

Fugu is dead fish...

[Don]

@keltex78

"Statistics from the Tokyo Bureau of Social Welfare and Public Health indicate 20 to 44 incidents of fugu poisoning per year between 1996 and 2006 in Japan (a single incident may involve multiple diners). Each year, these incidents led to between 34 and 64 victims being hospitalized and zero to six deaths, an average fatality rate of 6.8%."

Fugu is dead fish...

But was it dropped on them by a seagull ;)

[BIGWOOD]

@bibihang

@Streamer

Where did you read these reports? I recall reading that these batteries tested out just fine by one of our reviewers not long ago.

When the Trustfire new Flame just hit Manafont, Stephen Wallace's review seems not bad,
https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/6503

However, after some time some guys have some complaints. All the bad comments are from HKJ review here,
https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/5969

And here is an issue face by Aleister, the protection circuit failed to kick in,
https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/7254


EDIT: Stephen Wallace's Trustfire 3000mah Flame is not from Manafont but provided by someone from Ebay, while my Trustfire 3000mah Flame are bought from Manafont. Not sure if this does matter though (quality variation?).

Anyone else besides Aleister reported issues with this cell?

I've had mine for a few weeks now and been using them quite frequently. As I recall I've discharged 4 of them and all came out around 2600 mAh. Other than the lower than expected capacity I thought they were fine especially for the price. I originally bought the TFs to be used in the DRY but ended up using Hi-Max instead. Reason being was that I had 6 Hi-Max to choose from based on their discharged capacities. Of the 4 TF, the capacities were all quite different +/- 50 mAh or so.

[Old-Lumens]

@Don

@keltex78

"Statistics from the Tokyo Bureau of Social Welfare and Public Health indicate 20 to 44 incidents of fugu poisoning per year between 1996 and 2006 in Japan (a single incident may involve multiple diners). Each year, these incidents led to between 34 and 64 victims being hospitalized and zero to six deaths, an average fatality rate of 6.8%."

Fugu is dead fish...

But was it dropped on them by a seagull ;)

Yes, my mistake You are more likely to be injured (not killed) by a Lithium cell than by a dead fish Dropped by a Seagull anywhere in the world.

Sorry for not adding that part.

[fishinfool]

Before a li-ion goes boom, you will hear, "this battery will self-distruct in 5, 4, 3....." :D

[bibihang]

@Shadowww

@bibihang

And BTW, I don’t understand why the unbalanced cell’s voltage in a flashlight will cause one cell charging the other? Isn’t that the cells are in series configuration, while charging only take place when it is in parallel confifuration?

The charging that occurs in parallel connection is not dangerous, because it’s same direction as charging by a charger, whereby when used in series, emptied cell will get reverse-charged (changing it’s polarity), which often leads to very bad things (venting cell, possibly w/ flames).

Ok, but isn't that the protection circuit (as long as it works) also protect the battery from reverse charging?

[antonkochubey]

@bibihang

Ok, but isn’t that the protection circuit (as long as it works) also protect the battery from reverse charging?

It is supposed to, but you shouldn’t rely on them - they should be the last measure.

[p0708]

hi guys,
I just found out that 1 of my trustfire flames 3000mah 18650 cell is getting ever hotter when charged. Its feels just about too hot to touch. I have tried chargers like xtar mp1 and wp2 II,But its still as hot. I dun have a hobby charger so i dun know its capacity. Though it ran brightly about 1.5hr in 1 of my 1.25amp xml light.
Any suggestions? should i dump this cell?

[BetweenRides]

@p0708

hi guys, I just found out that 1 of my trustfire flames 3000mah 18650 cell is getting ever hotter when charged. Its feels just about too hot to touch. I have tried chargers like xtar mp1 and wp2 II,But its still as hot. I dun have a hobby charger so i dun know its capacity. Though it ran brightly about 1.5hr in 1 of my 1.25amp xml light. Any suggestions? should i dump this cell?

Dump it or better yet, recycle. Not worth the chance.