Lishen LR2170LA 21700 "4000mah, 35amp"

No reason, I may just go with Moli’s. I just wanted to follow up and see how these are working out.

HKJ tested by now: Test/review of Lishen 21700 4000mAh LR2170LA (Purple).

Saw it last night, so clearly the testing imags posted earlier in this thread were false……

The following is a screenshot I've taken from Henrik's battery cell comparator, comparing the LR2170LA versus the Samsung 40T at a few discharge currents:

This is a better way to see what's going on here. Lishen copied the Samsung 40T as best as they could. They did a very good job with it, but this is all.

Bear in mind the following, though:

  • The Samsung 40T test was done in August 2018. This doesn't mean that the comparison is invalid, although I'd prefer to see more updated data from 40T cells.
  • One of the LR2170SA cells could end its discharge curve at 30A. This really means nothing to me, there are other factors to consider. One among them is the fact that the ambient temperature in Henrik's test station matters, as its absolute limit is 75°C and any small variations in ambient temperature could slightly bias this. Just very slightly, though.

Lishen did a very good job reverse engineering the Samsung 40T and copying it. However, this is not everything…

Long ago, in an unbiased test Mooch did involving Sony/Murata VTC6, Samsung 30Q and LG HG2 cells (Bench Test Results: Which lasts longer? VTC6, 30Q, or HG2?), the results proved a noticeable difference between the contenders, with Samsung being the clear winner in endurance/lifespan.

I'd love to see unbiased data concerning the endurance and lifespan of Lishen cells, to see how do they fare in this regard. I have a few Lishens at home. I don't think they would match Samsung in this regard, but I also don't fear being wrong. I love reliable and long lasting things, by the way.

P.S.: Henrik should get a new type of cell holder, or an improved one, in my opinion. A custom made cell holder which resists much higher temperatures. He could make some higher current curves for bigger cells, for example, and avoid having to replace a holder from time to time. ;-)

If you look at initial voltage sage 40T is obviously better, particularly under hign current. I agree with you that Lishen did pretty well with this cell. By comparison Molicel P42A is a lot worse on voltage sage. But one thing I don’t understand is why Lishen didn’t use bottom vent only with this cell, all other Lishen cells have it. Also I think HKJ’s test is 40T1 while current version is 40T3. But it is strange that Mooch’s test showed 40T3 is worse than 40T1. I remember seeing somewhere else said that 40T3 is much better than T1. Maybe Mooch tested pre-production cells.

Other factor to consider is that this LR2170LA cell delivered less capacity and energy than the 40T, more than 100mAh less on average. At 1A, for example, the 40T delivered 3849mAh, while the LR2170SA just 3716mAh.

From the information in the above cell data charts, it can be seen that the LR2170LA delivered 3707.5mAh and 13513.6̅Wh on average at the given discharge rates (0.2A, 0.5A, 1A, 2A, 3A and 5A), while the 40T did 3838.83̅mAh and 13975.3̅ Wh.

Their average voltage is very very close to make a difference, while the lesser capacity means the discharge ends up faster at the same rate, and so the lesser capacity cell heats up to a lesser extent.

Edit.- All in all, I think the Samsung cell is the better choice. But price matters, too.

Tue, 10/12/2021 - 06:01

It is for the cell to be more easily disguised as a Samsung 40T.

Above is the top and bottom of the LR2170LA, below is the top and bottom of the 40T:

Lishen is a chinese manufacturer, and China is famous for copying stuff. What did you expect? ;-) They have a problem with self steem, imho.

Of course Lishen has its own, different wrap. However, a battery reseller, who of course rewraps cells, now has it very very easy to sell Lishen LR2170LA cells as Samsung 40T ones. Fortunately the devil is in the details, at least for an expert.

Hey there Lojik, So i did not. But now after seeing HKJ's review, i am going to be buying some. I was waiting for him or Mooch to post something about them. They look pretty decent compared to 40t, but at less than half the cost (Dont look now, but just dropped a sale on them). Which im surprised, bc they historically sell out over there in what seems like a week every time they get them in lol.

I regret getting LG M50T and Tesla 21700 rewraps. I thought the Tesla cells were the best deal around but they can’t be pushed past 10A. Although, I don’t know if they do much better new with low internal resistance. I’m purchasing Lishen LR2170LA until something better comes along. The price is unbeatable on Taobao - only 10 CNY and 1/3 the price of a 40T.

Both M50T and Tesla 21700s are mediocre cells but I used Amex Small biz offer and got 3xTesla 21700s for $7 shipped. My testing all came with 4900mah+ capacity and it is very hard to beat this price. Be careful with Taobao Lishen cells. What I red about Lishen is that the variation on capacity/performance is easily beyond +/- 20% off for the same cell so better to buy from reliable vendors.

Their average voltage is very very close to make a difference, while the lesser capacity means the discharge ends up faster at the same rate, and so the lesser capacity cell heats up to a lesser extent.

Edit.- All in all, I think the Samsung cell is the better choice. But price matters, too.

Tue, 10/12/2021 - 06:01


For flashlights the initial voltage sage is very important to push out the highest lumen, average voltage means nothing on this. I personally chose 30T for that purpose and I think I got them $3.99 each when 18650 ran a promotion.

For flashlights the initial voltage sage sag is very important to push out the highest lumen?

For flashlights? What flashlights?

Obviously that's an incorrect generalization. I think you meant to say “for my particular flashlight usage and that of freaks like me the initial voltage sag is very important to push out the highest lumens”, doesn't it?

In contrast I usually build fully regulated flashlights, frequently with boost converters and nearly always coupled with high CRI emitters. With a boost converter, the emitter always receives the full drive current of the selected mode, no matter if the battery cell is full or in a relatively low state of charge. My batteries are rarely charged above 3.95V, as I want them to live looong. And I don't care if the leds I buy are low bin because of their high colour rendering or high CRI. Of course I do not need to impress anyone with the figures from a measuring instrument when fed with a low CRI or low colour accuracy flashlight, for this you could buy a green emitter and this way you could always win the “lemons” race, did you know? See an example here. ;-)

Most of the emitters used in flashlights are low CRI, and this in my honest opinion is wrong. The fact that we cannot perceive all frequencies of visible light with the same sensitivity is no good reason to reduce the radiant flux or power employed at the frequencies we are less sensitive to. When doing so, the spectral power distribution gets distorted with the only aim to jack up the figures coming out of an instrument. Our eyes and minds tell us a different story, though, colour saturation matters and we also don't perceive light intensity linearly, far from it.

Just remembered I have a Convoy M1 with an Osram CSLNM1.TG (White Flat 1mm2). Remember it did nearly 100Kcd, but barely used LoL.

So my flashlight builds are namely meant to please my eyes and see things accurately, and on top of this some of them are really high power.

But well… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You are right… Unfortunately a large portion of my torches have unregulated drivers. And nobody really needs the maximum lumen on flashlights. But in many cases, many of us simply can’t help testing them for fun even though it won’t last a minute or two, do you? You always take a freshly charged cell and voltage sag matters in this scenario. Do I really need 35A CDR for torches? Not really but anyway. :slight_smile: And I still hope 50S will be widely available soon. I also need to figure out a way to stop autocorrection on my phone…