Streamer wrote:4wheeler.
race has nuttin to do with this thread. why have you introduced it? And the word "rut" does not suggest race to me either. From context, "rut" in this thread is signifying someones moral ethics.
My understanding is that we are all the same race.
Part of this conversation has been about how great Mr. Medford is and that we should be supporting him. He claims to be an embattled solder. If he is that, I salute him for that. I haven't read any specific details to verify that but even if he wasn't front line, I still salute him for his service. He says every single employee of his is a veteran. That is also something that should be saluted if true. In addition to his regular references to military service, he also makes homophobic and bigoted statements. Just Google his name and start watching his various videos if you don't believe me. Check out the back of his t-shirt in some of them. To me that speaks to moral ethics.
Believe it or not, such speech actually results in marginalization, pain, and tragedy to real people. I doubt I can convey to you how my heart races and the feelings of inadequacy and helplessness I feel I hear these things. They bring back very bad experiences in my life.
DBCstm knows I am not white when he said he wanted to support Mr. Medford because he likes his "Character". I posted that Mr. Medford's use of the F-word was nice compared to some of the other things he says in his videos. DBCstm response was that that says it all. It's Mr. Medford's right to say whatever he wants and it's DBCstm's right to support who every he wants and brag about it. But it doesn't sit well being preached to about morality given the situation.
To be clear, I was speaking on stealing copyright materials and selling them for profit. Those who buy these clones assist the illegal aspect of that. I have vested interest in this because my field of work has similar issue with the internet feeling like it’s ok to use others work freely.
I have since spent a lot of time watching video’s made by Greg Medford, watching many yesterday afternoon and getting a better sense of who he is. There is much that he says and acts out that I disagree with. His language being a part of that. I stand in support of where he’s coming from, not necessarily in how he goes about it.
My stance is that the small American businessman can’t compete with large overseas conglomerates. We are losing that battle and our way of life is facing drastic change because of it. The mentality that it’s ok to buy stuff wherever it’s made if it’s cheap is going to be the downfall of this country. I’m not talking anything about one’s genetic ancestry. We are all human beings, the human race, and all have the same thing to lose when this country falls. ALL of us. Even if you’re not American. America has given support to virtually every other country on the planet at some point or other, that will not happen any more… soon enough. And when we fall, a lot of others will fall with us. It’s just the way it is. I don’t see anything about Scotland (as an example) holding up anyone’s economy. And I have friends in Scotland. They sent my 7 year old a Loch Ness Monster (Nessie) stuffed animal with the Made In China tag firmly attached. This epidemic affects the world, it’s not about black, white, red or yellow. It’s about communism and freedom.
I am not forcing anything on anyone. You are free to read or bypass anything or everything I say. Call it bunk, or realize there’s truth in the simple fact that we as human beings have to know how to get along and respect each other for civilization to actually work and prosper. When a small fry starts a business and hires people to help him, his ideas are all he’s got. He implements those and the popularity of his ideas and implementation is what determines whether he survives or not.
I can’t imagine anyone that creates goods for sale disagreeing with what I’m saying. Do you work for yourself, or do you work for someone else? Do you produce anything? Technology is great, it’s also a problem in many areas. Hand made is almost a thing of the past. And hand made is largely what this forum is all about. Being creative on a budget, figuring out how to modify something made cheaply into something that works very well, ingenuity and creativity in a nutshell, with artistic design and the willingness to go out on a limb, that’s what makes the modders here special.
Budget lights from China, copied from American designs? Which ones? I have 93 lights and I don’t see any of these Chinese lights having a similar product made here. I have a dozen MagLights too. And custom made lights from here, custom made parts from around the world. I support the individual that has the gumption to stand up, to take the chance, and put his work out there for the benefit of others. That’s what I support. Not bigotry or racism, because I can’t stand that from anyone.
Obviously, I can’t speak for the view of people that live anywhere but in the USA. I don’t know what your community needs, or your family, if you’re in Germany or Pakistan or Ethiopia or wherever. I know nothing about the economy around the world. I speak for where I live, what I know, and anyone should be able to see that someone’s opinion is a direct reflection of their perspective. When enough people share the same opinion, great things happen. That’s how this country was started. And that is what I’m talking about.
Do you like your mother’s cooking? All of it? Or do you tell her how wonderuful it is, even when it isn’t? Support. Root level support. Whether you’re in Texas or Madrid, if you don’t support your local economy then your town is dying. It’s up to each and every one of us to take a stance, to make the changes, that keep each other successful.
I don’t know, maybe Mandarin Chinese with a Scottish accent would be interesting….
Look, the Chinese are obviously fully capable of making some really good product these days. The problem is when they don’t apply any ingenuity to that product and merely copy someone else. Even to the point of calling it by the other guys name. That’s where the line is being crossed. If they would simply deviate some from Medfords design and call it the Alibaba Monster or something, all would be good. If they would SAY it’s 440C steel instead of claiming it’s D2 when it’s not. The lies, the deceit, that is the problem here. Thievery is wrong, supporting it is wrong. That’s what I’m saying. The craftsmen in China can be supported in the product they are making that is their own, they do have some good design in many fields and they have modern machinery that allows tight tolerances for some high quality work. Maybe if people didn’t buy the junk because of the unbelievable low prices, they’d have to step it up and use higher quality materials. Actually get creative.
If I didn’t care, I wouldn’t go to so much trouble trying to explain it. But we have too many people not giving a crap, the heart of the problem.
I'm relieved I read more into what you were saying before and apologize for doing so.
As for America's decline and the business stuff, I largely agree with what you say. The blame of how we got to the point of being a country that makes things to a country that buys things is something I don't have the energy to debate. I think we all have said what we feel as far as this particular knife's situation. It's a good discussion and warrants deeper thought. I think it's a bit trolly to go into a fan thread and have it. I don't think it was done with trollish intentions though.
Innocent clone knife thread becomes heated moral debate :weary:
I already commented on the subject earlier in the thread, but just for fun I figured I’d throw some more of my opinions in the mix. J)
If all of these problems with America and business are going to be blamed on clones let’s put the blame on the real clones that deserve that distinction (it’s not these $20 knives) it’s all of the millions of counterfeit items that are flooded into this country from China and elsewhere and are sold to unsuspecting consumers as the real McCoy.
Literally tons of stuff. From clothing to car parts, airplane parts, plumbing and electrical parts, jewelry, electronics, toys, pharmaceuticals, health and beauty items, cigarettes, and even food items. And consumers are pretty much unaware and pay regular or only slightly discounted prices. That’s where the real problem lies.
Selling a$20 knock off of a $400 or $1000 pocket knife is totally different, because everyone knows they’re fake because it’s blatantly obvious. And the $400 knife maker didn’t loose a customer over it because the $20 knife buyer wasn’t going to buy the $400 knife. And the maker gained some recognition. Sometimes “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery”
I’ve bought a good many Fake branded knives from China, and I knew every one was a fake when I ordered them. At one point I began to have second thoughts about it and was inclined to side with the “it’s wrong or immoral” camp. But after some serious thought I had to invalidate that theory. And I didn’t buy them because I don’t care about the American worker, Veterans or businesses. I bought them for the fun of it, completely harmless IMO.
I think the downturn that has happened in America as far as domestic consumer goods and manufacturing was due to people wanting the lowest prices and over time the “American” businesses in the supply and distribution chains realized this and began importing goods, then over time this trend keep progressing until the point of American factories and small retail businesses closing down putting more and more Americans out of jobs, to the point of where we’re at today where almost nothing is made in America anymore. And you have to buy everything at Walmart. |(
Some good points were brought here up that I agree with:
Most of the name brand Knock off knives I bought I previously never heard of the brand, but now I know the names and have a high respect for their products. I’ve already bought some of the “Real McCoys” because I discovered the brands through the knock offs, so Omega_17’s above quote is so very very true.
Dale, just curious, had you ever heard of Medford knives before reading this thread about their clone?
Dale, not sure I completely understand this comment, could you please elaborate, are you saying we should avoid buying goods that are made in China?
(please don’t take this question the wrong way, I value your opinion as much as I do everyone’s here on BLF, I just want to better understand your views)
Nicely put beam0 in Post 246. You clearly summarized and stated what I and probably most of the others that see no issue in buying this knife have thought and tried to less effectively communicate.
I'm curious. Are solders and law enforcement actually using the real knifes in the field. I see these knives as more novelty knives designed to make a man feel more manly. I certainly would not want to lug these behemoths around in the field. I'm a fairly big guy (Sorry Streamer, I know body size has nuttin to do with this thread) and I don't even carry it occasionally. My wife is in law enforcement. I asked her if she has ever seen any agents carrying something like this knife in the field. She said she hasn't.
I fear that in many cases, like Rick Hinderer’s knives, they generally end up as collectibles. There are people, for whom a $700 knife is the equivalent of a $70 knife, who buy them to be used, but as the numbers for resale on eBay demonstrate, some just buy the knife for what they can flick it off for. Servicemen, if they are knife nuts, may carry something like a $100 Spyderco, but I suspect that the majority get by with a Gerber or some other cheap knife that they can abuse the hell out of without caring if it breaks, gets lost, or is stolen. I know that the genuine Medford is much lighter than the copy, but I’m sure that something the weight of the copy would be quickly discarded in favour of a knife that doesn’t add so much to the insane burdens soldiers have to carry in the field.
I suspect that a Victorinox Swiss Army knife is as much as many would invest in.
I would guess that my approach as a small business owner would be to make a less expensive version for the everyday user that can’t afford the real thing. This would make for an amazing reason not to buy a clone.
I sell mostly museum quality skulls and work, but I do not complain when someone tells me that they can get a plastic replica for half the price. I decided to stop tossing out non perfect skulls and sell them at a much reduced price. Worked out well for me. I adapted to what was being asked of those that I was trying to sell to and I sell almost everything that I can get out of the beetles.
As for my process and intellectual property on my process, I have it all typed up and give it away for free. Many think they can do the work I do, most just come back and ask me to finish their work. Mainly due to the smell, but hey I take what I can get.
Just my two cents, I get both sides.
That seems to be the way Spyderco went too Hagg. Seeing that models that borrowed a lot of their features (like Navy) were selling at a price point they didn’t cover, they got into bed with some Chinese manufacturers and produced the Byrd range. Now you can by an almost-Spyderco for Chinese market prices.
A G10 Byrd Cara Cara 2 is certainly a good alternative to a Military clone.
That would make too much sense for most makers but it’s a damned good idea.
After watching several videos on YouTube of Greg Medford and his points of view I think he is a pratt, his views are not anywhere near mine and if I’m doing him harm by buying a $20 copy of his stupidly overpriced (but very nice) knives then so be it and I won’t lose a wink of sleep over it.
If he reckons a $20 knife is threatening his business then he needs to have a re-think of his business model. He may as well say that people buying a frame lock other than his harms his profits. I could not see his reasoning when he repaired a clone that was sent to him by the owner while at the same time bad-mouthing the POS that he had just worked on. Me, I’d have returned it with a note saying it was not the genuine article and I would not work on it.
Let’s think about this, A $20 knife (a well made one in this case) buyer would like to buy the $1200 genuine one but they come up short by a thousand or so, it seems reasonable to me that the clone would fill the gap nicely. The clone would likely get used - if it’s the same as mine it’s a very strong knife, certainly capable of doing all the EDC tasks that you could throw at it. I wonder how many of the real Medford Praetorians get used for EDC, not many if any so the clones are eye-catching enough and on show, good advertising that the real one doesn’t do because the owners don’t want to harm their investment.
His rant on oiling his knives and taking them apart for cleaning was condescending in the extreme - if he thinks that his special grease doesn’t attract pocket lint and grit, dust and general dirt then he’s delusional.
Anyway, I’ve got a clone of the Praetorian and I’m well pleased with it, now about that Jason Brous Reloader clone. :bigsmile:
Clones are also a good way of seeing what the various knives are like and if they “fit” you before putting your hand in your pocket for the big money original. Also a way of getting hold of a sold out or out of production knife that is going for too much money second hand.
The only problem I see with these knives is the scumbags who sell or resell them as originals for multiple hundreds of dollars. I agree too, that if Medford offered a “budget” ~$100 model using cheaper steel and materials, people would possibly consider dropping the cash on them vs a clone.
I have seen in one of his videos that he is releasing a midtech line. An import line would further his profits I am betting. As he cannot produce the pivot he uses for the price of the clone (taken loosely from his clone rant).
I`m still waiting for mine, I have the Praetorian clone and it brilliant just hope the Brous clone matches it, looks very good.
The Brous Reloader clone is a good knife, more usable in everyday jobs - at home - I see you’re in the U.K. as well. 
It’s as good as an Enlan, and I do like my EL-01s. And unlike the original that is sold out on Brous’s site it’s not going to cost much so you can use it instead of it being just a display piece.
I always use my debit card no problems, they use the Escrow system of payment, basically the supplier doesnt revieve your money until you say you have satisfactorily recieved it, it works, if after a while you dont they send you back the money.
100% agree.
This thread should be renamed "Medford & Brous Clones" or something like that. It already has great info on a couple of them. Might as well make the go to place for all of them. How about it Mr. KaiserSosa (Love this username by the way)?
Completely agree.
I have only had three claims on the Escrow system, all three were settled in my favour in under 48 hours. Two were under $10 one $26.
I have had over thirty orders from AliExpress so this seems a reasonable ratio of losses, i.e. none.
I can see the truth in that, it is a problem, the thing is Medford didn’t produce a knife like this - an all steel frame lock so anyone looking to buy one would know straight away, I think the clip is different as well.
From his rant about modified knives, clones and maintenance of his knives, the guy comes across as a complete pratt, and not someone I would buy from even if he did have knives available to sell and I had the money.
Damn, that Praetorian clone weighs more than my 21 cm blade sami knife. Impressing “thing” though, why shouldn’t I get one?
