New Basic UI (based on FSM/Anduril code) - do you like it?

[MascaratumB]

Danke for taking our words in consideration Lux-Perpetua!

(I started writing this and then I saw your latest reply, still, I will do my considerations )

@Lux-Perpetua

Muito obrigado MascaratumB. I see what you mean. I hope that 1H from Strobe will be hidden enough to not be irritating for most users. Some customers may like SOS or Beacon. If it was up to me only, I would remove the entire strobe functionality.

I hope so, but I guess that the best way to address that will be with a sample in the hands, and check if timings on that 1H are OK! :nerd_face:

I will just recall a “strategy” used by Wuben in their TO46R and TO10R to keep the other blinkies (SOS/Beacon) “out of the way”: from ON, in any mode, press/click & hold 2seconds the “mode button” (as those lights have 2 buttons) to enter Strobe, and after that keep holding the button to advance to SOS and keep holding to advance to Beacon.

To resume, a triple click to access strobe is OK, then the amount of time “holding” to change to the other blinkies is the key for success
In my opinion, of course!!

@Lux-Perpetua

Hard to disagree with you here. Let’s hear some more voices on that, so we can see where we are going.

Ok I’ve seen you changed it to 10 clicks and I agree with that to alternate between stepped and ramping Levels! :+1:

@Lux-Perpetua

I took your criticism into account. Please have a look at the new approach. I hope I have found a good compromise that is also in line with the stepped mode ramping of Andúril.

This would be a major point in my “arguing” but I saw you’ve just changed it in the latest reply/version: https://abload.de/img/w_ui2majuf.png

I was going to say that…as some things were picked from Manker inspiration (and recently Skilhunt too) one could have the chance to configure the Moon mode we would like the most and still be able to jump from that chosen level to Low. But that would add other kind complexity which is not necessary probably.

The other solution I was going to present (following the former scheme) was - while in the Moon “group”, that was changeable through 1H - to have 1C+1H to jump from the Moon level to Low. But maybe this was a bit confusing too :zipper_mouth_face:

So, the latest option may be a nice compromise for a simpler UI, with a nice ML level

@Lux-Perpetua

2C should normally bring you back from Turbo AND Strobe to the memorized standard stepped mode / ramped brightness. 3C from ON would always take you to Strobe. Maybe the UI chart needs some more finetuning to represent it correctly. Personally, I doubt that anyone has ever cycled between Strobe and Turbo mode but I am open to any better ideas, of course. However, in the name of consistency we could for sure change it to 3C to jump back from Strobe to the main cycle and 2C to go to Turbo.

I guess this is already clear through the subsequent work you’ve done in the schemes, so thank you for that, and for going through this whole work

Will be looking for its’ development!

[gchart]

With that update to how the Moon modes work, I’m seeing less and less differences between this and Anduril2’s Simple UI. I bet I could copy Anduril2, make a few tweaks :

1. Allow switching between Ramp and Stepped (without venturing into Advanced UI for config)
2. Allow for button LED config
3. Add Strobe mode access
4. Increase the ceiling value
5. Use 2C Turbo config setting
6. Remove BattCheck (???)
7. Disable the Advanced UI (???)

Honestly, it doesn’t look daunting at all now that I think about it.

[hodor]

Nice changes LP! Gotta agree with Tom E and gchart though, just makes sense and surely a better proposition for them? Unless they want to do their own thing, which is also fine, horses for courses.

[Lux-Perpetua]

I agree. TBH, I took some inspiration from Andúril 2’s Simple UI. Maybe it’s possible to merge some ideas from my draft with the basic functionalities of Andúril 2.0?

Suggestion:

3C from ON/OFF - strobe mode („tactical strobe“ in Andúril)

7C from OFF/LOCKOUT - cycle switch illumination modes

10C from OFF - switch between ramping and stepped mode

No Advanced UI

Open issues:

• Battery Check via switch illumination (green, red, flashing red) seems fine for a simple flashlight with essential features. I guess it will be easier to understand by „muggles“ instead of counting the voltage decimal flashes.
• How do we address a useful stepped ramping for L - M - H? Please correct me if I am wrong. Andúril divides the given 150 levels by the number of defined steps, all with the same mode spacing. Would that mode spacing represent a linear increase in brightness or the much more desired „curved“ increase that is more in line with the human eye‘s perception?

[gchart]

In Anduril, you can switch on-the-fly between stepped and ramped modes (including the ability to change the number of steps). It picks the stepped levels evenly spaced throughout the 150 levels. Since those 150 levels are defined on a curve, the stepped modes also follow that same curve.

[Caleb]

Please make blinky modes LESS accessible. In my opinion, 3C is too easy to access by mistake… maybe 5C.

Thanks.

[Oli]

@Lux-Perpetua

Open issues:

• Battery Check via switch illumination (green, red, flashing red) seems fine for a simple flashlight with essential features. I guess it will be easier to understand by „muggles“ instead of counting the voltage decimal flashes.

The issue as I see it is that they go to solid red when the battery is at <30. I don’t want to leave the house for the day with any flashlight in my pocket with 32 battery somewhere around 3.5 volts. If they bump it to 50% or somewhere close to 3.7 volts then I’d be okay with the color system. I think most people, when they know what the voltage is at, are going to start recharging at 3.7v. Edit. However, the advantage of making a voltage check as part of some sort of clicking system is that it can be used on any light with a tail switch or a non-lit switch in the future.

[Caleb]

Please make blinky modes LESS accessible. In my opinion, 3C is too easy to access by mistake… Maybe 5C?

Thanks.

[Quadrupel]

From off—> hold for moon —-> keep holding to enter main modes —> keep holding for circling main modes only. 2 modes of moon only, selectable by click and hold or double click but no turbo.

[d_t_a]

@SammysHP

Just don’t make the UI more complex than necessary. There are a lot of nice-to-have features, but focus on the core feature makes the light easier to use for new users and more reliable for advanced users. The suggested UI seems to be good.

Invest more time in creating a good, efficient boost driver. This is something that most budget lights don’t have. Keep in mind: A product sells when it has something special.
Software is relatively cheap. A firmware like this can be developed by a single person in few days to some weeks and once it’s done it can be used for thousands of flashlights. The driver has a big impact on your BOM. Not easy to find a working tradeoff between performance and cost. But it is worth the effort.

USB-C charging is often requested. Make it work with modern USB power supplies. No big deal, there are standard solutions that don’t cost much. A hole with a plug is easy to do and cheap. Not the nicest way, but better than nothing.

TIR optics! Reflectors are a bit dated. Select a TIR optic that works with the selected (high CRI!) LED.

Thermal regulation: If the light requires thermal management, do it right. A timed step down doesn’t help because it depends on the initial temperature. Sadly Sofirn/Wurkkos ATR is a big fail. If you can’t develop a reliable, non-oscillating regulation – just don’t do it. Use a simple step down depending on the temperature, but don’t step up again automatically. The user can increase the brightness again if he wants and the regulation should step down after some time.

Good points, I think we’d like to have a good efficient boost driver, but I wonder how much this will affect cost?

Regarding oscillating regulation, the runtime chart with the oscillation doesn’t look good, but they seem to occur mostly after the 60 minutes mark. So far I’ve not have a light turned on for that long in actual usage (unless using it like a lantern / bedlamp type of usage).

I have a question — do the oscillations on the HD20 occur if the light is switched off and then switched on again? Or does it only occur if the light is turned on and never shut off (also, never changed brightness level when it was first turned on — if there’s a change in brightness somewhere, will the oscillations occur or they get “reset”).

[SammysHP]

The oscillations are based entirely on the temperature. On my SP33 V3.0 they start after 4-5 minutes.

[pennzy]

@SammysHP

The oscillations are based entirely on the temperature. On my SP33 V3.0 they start after 4-5 minutes.

Can they be seen with the naked eye?

[gchart]

Yeah. It’s a wild ride.

[d_t_a]

@SammysHP

The oscillations are based entirely on the temperature. On my SP33 V3.0 they start after 4-5 minutes.

Thanks for the clarification, SammysHP and gchart for doing these extensive testing…

[SammysHP]

@pennzy

@SammysHP

The oscillations are based entirely on the temperature. On my SP33 V3.0 they start after 4-5 minutes.

Can they be seen with the naked eye?

Yes, extremely well. Here are my measurements on high without extra cooling:

[Oli]

Battery voltage.
After thinking about it, the best solution would be to use the current color system AND flash/count one time everytime it is turned on in any mode. And when it gets to critical levels it keeps flashing until LVP shutdown. And still raise the red up to 50% so you can see it with the light off with the lit switch.

[pennzy]

Thanks for the charts. Too bad the ATR is so up and down. The SP33V3 was going to be my next purchase but not so sure now.

[Quadrupel]

Advanced Automatic Temperature Regulation makes mode stabilization useless. Sofirn have to use one or another but not both at once

[Unheard]

On turbo, the light should go back to where it was after 2C. And that’s off, if it was off. Few lights are doing this (e.g., Wuben E05 and, I think, even Sofirns SP40).

[Tendou]

Is the ATR on Wurkkos HD20 as bad?