Well, I wasn’t even referring to safety. I was simply bringing up the FACT that running through a red light is illegal, and so if you do that, you are breaking the law. I believe that any law that doesn’t cause harm is a legitimate law. Since the law that you must stop at red lights is not damaging to anyone, then it is legitimate, and I will support the state, federal, or local jurisdiction’s right to enforce it by any means necessary (that doesn’t cause harm). That includes cameras at intersections. I don’t even care if a live person is watching the tapes or writing the tickets. To me, law enforcement is law enforcement. If I don’t break the law, I shouldn’t ever have to worry about how the law is enforced against those who do.
I don’t support toll roads because tax-payers have already bought the road by paying their taxes. But, I don’t see any harm in cameras at toll roads either, really.
I find it pertinent that you summed up my entire post as “etc”.
You must not have read “etc” or you would know that the red lights are being manipulated to provide revenue via the cameras.
You must not consider damage to your wallet… actual damage.
So as you can see, traffic will likely intentionally be screwed so as to maximize the income from the cameras, with negative impacts on congestion, pollution and fuel consumption.
And you consider this plan “non-damaging”… non damaging to what? pollution? traffic? fuel consumption? my wallet some more? or what about the increase in traffic accidents causes by the cameras in the numerous studies i provided links to; are those cars not damaged?
Don’t just arm-chair keyboard warrior the issue… Spend a few days and research it. Think about it logically, if not critically. Read the studies. Think some more.
+ 1000
I agree, people need to stop being stupid & careless idiots and not run red lights & stop signs in the first place.
A neighbors 12 year old was killed last year by some idiot running a red light here locally. In Canada we have red light cameras everywhere, most use IR, and radar detectors are illegal. I believe that any company that builds devices that are designed to help people “get away” with breaking laws put in place for public safety & driving careless, should be forced to close down by the courts, and pay every cent profit they made from selling these devices, & used to add more red light cameras.
My city bought the camera then removed them all. You want cameras put them inside the car and hook them up to Onstar. Currently Onstar can track your GPS location, speed and direction. Turn off the car remotely (no more chases, still working on legalities in most states), tell how many are in seats (seat sensors for safety belts), and with a search warrant listen to the inside. Put the camera just in front of the rear view mirror and you can get complete driving reports, habits. All without putting anyone in the car on camera. Then offer 10% good driver discounts for those who comply and drive correctly.
When I first started reading this thread, I had the urge to post but oh boy, did I not want to get into it. I see Texas shooter and Wdkingery have it covered. Including the fact that tickets issued by a machine were never legal.
Glad you’ve both have it covered. Saved me from having to get into it. :SICK: atm.
Civilization costs money, unfortunately. If you cut taxes year after year after year the only way left to pay for things is fees, fines, penalties and civil forfeiture (AKA legalized piracy). Or I guess there's another alternative, we could forget the whole thing and go back to dirt roads and open sewers and if you have a problem in your neighborhood you can just hire the local gunslinger to come in and clean things up. Maybe some day people will realize that paying taxes is a better way to do it.
There are tax breaks I could take advantage of that would effectively eliminate every bit of my property taxes, but even though I am poor I pay the full amount because it's the right thing to do. And also, property tax money is what keeps the local school system's doors open.
If everybody says 'let somebody else pay for it', where does the money come from?
Our neighbors from Maribor (Slovenija) had similar problem where corrupt mayor made a deal with private company (92% of money went to private company) and charged huge amounts of speeding/red light/parking tickets. Can you imagine that it town with 90k citizens almost 30k fines were issued in one month !
Result was riots, burned or ripped out cameras and protests in other cities.
As you can see on this picture, lasers can actually be useful after all…
no no, this is not about important issues like privacy, taxes or political ways.
It is about a method to avoid being fined when breaking a logical and simple law, something totally avoidable _and if not, the fine would be the least of the worries.
_
Using tech to dodge having to pay, woe he who gets involved in an accident having a device like thi sinstalled, insurance companies are always looking for way not to pay up.
In the UK if you use one of these to prevent a conviction and get caught, you’ll be charged with “perverting the course of justice”, that’s a rather more serious offence than speeding or going through a red light.
I think we may be having a discussion with two distinct leanings between total democracy (let me take all my rights) and socialism. These separate leanings are almost never reconciled.
While I agree that shortening the yellow light duration and other such manipulations should be outright illegal I don’t think that some doodad that allows you to circumvent the law is the answer.
Get a petition going, there are several sites that make it very easy, and get the attention of your local legislators. If they don’t answer, move up to the next level until you get somewhere. We aren’t in some third world country, if local legislation is causing accidents and unjust fines you could even pursue a class action suit in higher and higher level courts to get recompense for those that were victimized, and nobody can legally prevent you from that course of action.
I’ll fight fire with fire. If their cam shows me under a red light, my dashcam will show that I was in the intersection before the light turned red and therefore I have not broken the law. Plus I will want to confront my accuser and demand that they be locked up for conspiracy and perjury.
Used properly I have no problems with red-light cams, but in many places they can now legally fine the registered car tag owner for the violation no matter who was driving. You’re not supposed to be able to charge a person with a crime they did not personally commit, so that is just plain wrong.
My suggestion when things get that bad is anarchy. If they will not be fair and above-board then I believe that you shouldn’t have to be that way either. Target the cams- after having to replace them several times over with that problem getting more frequent they will soon remove them as being unsustainable on their own. And being something newsworthy that will be all over the media and bring more like-minded people out of the woodwork }
I’ll play fair with you if you play fair with me. Cheat me and all the rules go out the window (and then you might too- qv “defenestration”)
I agree we should be fighting it in the courts. But bringing a lawsuit or otherwise fighting your local government requires a lot of money, time and effort. If you want a chance at being successful. They will fight hard against you regardless of how wrong their actions might be. And they have much more money to throw into the fight (provided of course by the millions of dollars the cameras create in fines). Most people have jobs and families. They can’t justify taking on such a crusade. But we can support those that do take on the legal fight.
In my state the speed cameras and red light cameras are treated like parking tickets. The owner of the car gets a ticket, but no points, regardless of who was driving the car (unless the car has been reported stolen to the police). It is modeled after parking tickets, the owner of the car gets the tickets regardless of who parked the car.
I’m pretty sure that is the issue behind the device.
Sure they can, just as I am prevented from say, operating an airline, coming out with a new prescription medication, or becoming an Internet Service Provider – the State has set the cost of entry too high. Launching a new drug requires a $1billion application fee to the FDA. Ever wonder why your neighbor hasn’t ever invented a new wonder drug, or why Comcast is the only game in town where you live?
As I mentioned to OldLumens, I don’t have enough money to buy a politician. But I do have the money for the device that solves the problem for me.
The problem there is they never run out of other people’s money. Take for instance the post office, or anything else the State has touched – they can operate at a loss indefinitely, because they don’t rely on revenue for money… they steal it (from operations like red light cameras that “make intersections safer”) to cover their losses.
