Unfortunately, there is no link to this 128mm ultra-specular reflector that achieves >100cd/lm. I can tell you it is made by Illumination Machines and that you will have to sign a non-disclosure agreement for the data sheet. You can buy them in lots of 100 at what ever price you can negotiate with IM though. I leave you with the first post that I brought this reflector up that the big drivers of this thread seem to totally discount.
Am I the only one in this thread that wants to know why serious contributions about the most critical component driving the build seem to be discounted. Seriously, the length of the chosen reflector will totally influence the athletics of the light in the winning format just chosen.
Weaseling? Offense taken. Do you know anyone else here that had been able to get one from them or to negotiate a buy with them? Please explain the approach you are so sure would have worked. It needs to be something that others here have not already tried.
EDIT: Weaseling? Did you see what I was building for that reflector. It would have been good PR for them. There is weaseling here for sure, but it wasn't me acquiring a reflector from IM.
I think he meant to talk them into sending him a sample… IIRC someone said Illumination machines reflector costed like around 5 bucks when bought in quantity…(Might be wrong tho)
Please explain to me what you are talking about. I and others here have asked IM for a sample of that reflector over the course of many years. When the 2014 build started, I told them what I wanted to build and how I felt using their reflector would give them some visibility. They agreed to provide me with a a demo. It had some damages from however it had been used, but it was still quit impressive. Like other IM products I have purchased, it exudes quality design and execution. I can be faulted for not completing the build, for sure. I won't explain why that happened. I will only state that I poured hundreds of dollars and hours into in it. Something tragic happened. Afterwords, I regretted putting so much time into it when I should have been spending it with someone special in their final days. I tried to power through and complete it, but I just couldn't build up enough steam. So I failed in more than one way. I regret the latter much more than the former.
So please, explain to me like I'm a 5 year old. How did I "weasel" that reflector from IM.
I think your are confusing who said the word “weaseling”, it certainly was not me and believe I am not the one who should explain, I am simply stating my opinion that I think he meant to talk them into sending him a sample and not an insult towards you, but I’ll let him explain…
Weaseling? Offense taken. Do you know anyone else here that had been able to get one from them or to negotiate a buy with them? Please explain the approach you are so sure would have worked. It needs to be something that others here have not already tried.
EDIT: Weaseling? Did you see what I was building for that reflector. It would have been good PR for them. There is weaseling here for sure, but it wasn’t me acquiring a reflector from IM.
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ImA4Wheelr, no disrespect intended, it wasn’t meant the way you took it!
4wheeler that sounds like a decent price you name there.
You still got it?
If so could you try it on several LEDs?
And relax, I didn’t know how to react to yoir first suggestion of it because here was Mt thinking:
US made $
Needs adaptation $$
Needs shipping $$$
(Inside US shipping is OK and last year price wetlnt way up so sending something abroad is ludicrous now)
Being EU and seeing most production done in China by US (Cree anyone?) And EU companies I have no desire to put something in a light just because it is US made, should we look for EU components and heck while we are at it on this global forum why not include south amerika and India and let’s not forget the Aussies
Meaning if you feel strong about US components and Cree is not US enough for you, go for it, just remember that shipping $35-$65 and taxation at least €35 (~$39) would make such a light extremely special to be ordered from anybody from the EU since we could be looking at a $100 extra on top of the sale price
Voted for the box style light. A unique design for a unique light.
But sadly I think it will be cheapear to produce a plunger style light than a box one.
The flashlight should be with xhp35, 4s driver and easy to mod battery cartrige from 4s to 4p. This way it would be cheap to change to xp-l or xp-g2 leds and a FET driver.
I really do hope that this fantastic initiatieve is not going to get slowded down or worse by personal discussions…….
US made, EU made, China made……as long as the components are of good quality, the light will have the performance we all are hoping for and the price is right, go for it.
By rough math I am guessing a china made reflector would cost something around $8-10 to make based on other options in that size range / quality and a general knowledge of profit margins ect. In fact it could be less then that, I am just not sure how the price is going to scale up to a larger reflector as I know it does cost proportionally more the larger the reflector.
As far as the US made reflector goes, I was going on the numbers posted in the old GB thread of $19 each, I figured in larger bulk of ~250ish units $14-15 each would be possible to purchase them (seems that was not far off).
Then they have to be shipped to China, that would easily add another $4-6+ per reflector taking it back up to close to $20 each based on the best numbers I had at the time.
Compare that to $8-10 and you see why I say it would add a significant amount of cost.
Now to the practical statements. Sadly using any kind of American made part truly is a non-starter with China manufactures. Been through this in past dealings with them in other industries. They REALLY dislike using anything but China made parts in their items (it makes some sense, it is far easier, cheaper and quicker for them to source things locally and saves a lot of hassle all the way around in general. Just like when sourcing parts in America does for American companies).
This has nothing to do with my personal feeling on the matter, it is simply the way things are over there and it is hard enough finding a manufacture to take on this project at all, we start trying to push things like that down their throats and they could very easily bail on the project.
These are my feelings as a business deal.
Now my personal feelings are that I would love to see the entire light made in the USA, with USA metal, glass, electronics, machining and everything else.
Sadly this is not possible at a price point that even a fraction of the interest list so far would consider spending. Instead of $100 or less we would be looking at $250+.
Would it be a great light? Yep.
Would there be much reason to make it since you can get a TN42 or K70 for a lot less? Not really.
This is a case where practicality overrides desire. It is simply not practical to go with a US manufacture and expect more then a few handfuls of sales, thus there would be little to no discount for quantity and the price would be even higher yet again.
Let me preference my response by saying the following:
I'm not advocating that we must use IM Luminus CST90 reflector. I am only suggesting it as a candidate. I hope that other viable candidates come forward as I personally would prefer a shorter reflector (but not at the cost of throw).
Regarding cost to ship, I would hope that cost to ship 100, 200, 300, or whatever quantity in one shipment to China would not be much of a factor on a per unit basis. I don't know if the IM reflector is even manufactured in the USA. Maybe it is made in China.
Regarding modification, it certainly would be a must that IM not cut out the bottom. We want the bottom to remain intact except for a whole for the emitter or emitter base.
Regarding USA manufactured. I don't believe Cree emitters are manufactured in the USA. I Since we rarely see anything from the USA in our lights, it would be cool if one component in this light is made here, but only if the part meets the specs we desire and is price competitive.
I do still have the reflector. It's been sitting in the same place since I abandoned the project in 2014. I can try to test it with some emitters, but have a few concerns as follows:
I have cut off part of the bottom of the reflector to get rid of the notched area at the bottom (see pic below). It chopped off what I would think is a critical part of the parabola that I would think we would want the reflector to have in this light's build. Ideally, we would want an intact reflector from IM for testing.
I don't feel I'm the best qualified to get quality measurements of throw. So take any numbers I report with big healthy grain of salt. If we get serious about this reflector, someone much more qualified should perform some testing on an intact reflector. IM claims >100cd/Lm. IM does not seem to exaggerate. So I feel that we can rely on that number to use in the initial screening of reflector candidates.
Not sure how soon I can get around to do this.
Cut out I eliminated that took out an important part of the reflector that we would want to be completely intact (i.e.. not notched for the military light it was designed for). I had not yet made any cuts in the picture below.
EDIT: Sorry for the multiple edits folks. Kept finding typos.
I just sent an email to IM asking the following about the CST90:
Regarding the >100cd/lm performance measure. What emitter is that result is based? (I've been assuming the SST90)
Would it be possible to have your reflector not have the cutout on the bottom? We would prefer the bottom remain intact with just a small hole for the emitter. Currently, we are considering the XHP35 and the XP emitters sizes.
The light would be manufactured in China. Are your reflectors made out there? We are hoping to reduce shipping costs of your reflectors to China.
Do you only take orders in 100 unit increments? If we are able to get preorders for say 450 units, we need to know if we can order 450 unit, or would we have to order 500 units. We would want to buy some extras for replacement purposes, but haven't determined how many extras we want yet.
Do you make any reflectors that have even higher cd/lm performance?
