Ages ago I posted a query about best budget 14500’s and ended up on recommendation buying some protected keeppower that I’ve been very happy with but am about to buy some more batteries and may some different sizes as well.
One of the comments someone made was you’re better off without protected as it easy to see when they’re getting low but it stops them just cutting out on you … what’s the general consensus.
One of the reasons one of the torches I’m about to buy batteries for is for cycling in the dark and I really don’t fancy them suddenly dying just as I approach a rut in the road at high speed.
If they’re not protected how quickly does the light diminish, is it easy to see and at what sort of voltage would it become very noticeable or is it not until you’re at levels that you’re likely to be damaging the battery for good???
I’m asking as a preemptive as it’s mainly the bike I’m concerned about might just use or buy another AA/AAA torch instead and keep with the protected cells where it doesn’t matter if it dies instantly for other uses.
Hey mate.
It is hard to say because all applications are different!
If your using a high power light none protected high drain cells will do better. If your only buying standard cells i would go protected.
Is the bike light your buying running on 18650s?
Its true you will be able to see the batteries going flat before they do drain all the way but if the light is using a lot of current you can still over discharge them and say if you can accidentally drain them the whole way by leaving the light on by accident. Or the light have some drain when of and you don’t notice so it could ruin the battery.
protection will help with over charging/over discharging also short circuit protection.
This all depends on the circumstances if you are using a 14500 and it is a 700MAh battery but you are using it in a BLF X5 which uses about 4000MAh to run on high you can see it can cause a lot of problem if you are not careful quickly. But some light do have built in protections.
Generally protected cells that have a lower max discharge will have more a higher Mah rating.
I’ve got a couple of options for the bike one is a SK98 with an 18650 or a Coast HP1 with 14500’s but could easily be cycling longer than a full charge lasts …… I could always use this with AA’s as well although it does reduce the brightness quite a bit.
A friend also has a lenser M5 he doesn’t use much and I may buy off him and keep that as a dedicated bike light as it’s AA and the run time is quite good but if I had an 18650 that wasn’t going to just cut on me could be an unnecessary purchase although would need to spend money on batteries instead.
How much is the Sk98? you can probably get some thing a bit better for the price. But the sk98 will last ages easy a couple of hours with a 18650.
Yea that is the thing so a 14500 is like 700mah and runs a light at a higher current so you lose overall run time. But a NiMH AA has a capacity of 2400Mah and uses a less current so you get way more run time but some NiMH are still capable of 10amp discharge.
Have you looked at the convoy C8 i think you can buy the mounts for your bike that fit the C8 even if you where to run the C8 on high the whole time with a 3000Mah battery you get over an hour of run time because it would step down as the light runs. Or on mode 2 you should be good for over 2 hours of run time.
No I meant to the torch but I’m sure you’re right and the SK98 probably only puts out about 200 rather than the 600 / 1000 figures that are quoted so probably be about the same if it’s an accurate figure in the one I linked to.
Stupid that they do it really a 200 / 300 torch is still a decent amount of light.
Protected. But get quality seiko protection (Evva or keeppower are inexpressive options).
By the time the overdischarge protection kicks in you are well past the point you should have stopped anyway. Which is 3.0v. Overdischarge protection a safety cutoff to prevent internal damage to the cell. And there is very little capacity left at that point anyway. You won’t get any real light. Plus if you did go lower, under 2v, (using an unprotected cell) then you should to throw out the cell afterwards. HKJ How far can LiIon be discharged?
Use a li-ion only flashlight, with most of them you can see when the cell is getting low (light will get dimmer). Only lights with a boost or buck/boost driver can use a li-ion to empty without telltale dimming near the end. Like a light that takes AA and 14500.
Unprotected cells won’t stop instantly, but unprotected LiIon’s do need to be monitored as to discharge voltage level. There’s no real consensus on how low the limit should be, but 2.8V to 3.0V is generally optimum, with about 2.5V being about as low as they should ever see.
Most of us use awareness of the light output or a runtime found through actual use to know when we’re nearing our preferred limits with unprotected cells so we can swap them out or recharge them. In this usage it is critical to not have the light suddenly stop so I would chose unprotected and become familiar with them. Needing to replace an over-discharged cell is a far better option than suffering the damages of a crash or a damaged bike and over-discharging in use is not unsafe; those problems arise after use during charging.
Read LiIon Safety 101 if you haven’t yet done so, then buy only quality cells which folks here on BLF recommend as added protection against problems, as well as getting value for your money. Unprotected cells are safe when used properly, they just require paying more attention to their discharge level. It’s not hard to do and it also saves some money since they’re cheaper to buy.
Not Panasonic, they’re Sanyo UR14500P 840mAh (sure Panasonic now owns Sanyo but they continue to sell under the Sanyo name).
Orbtronics can be expensive. You don’t have to pay alot for top brand cells with seiko protection IC and quality mosfets. Evva or keeppower are good options (keeppower 14500s must say 840mAh to be sanyo). Evva Sanyo UR14500P 840mAh with seiko protection $7 from MtnElectronics in USA.
Cheers for everyone’s input is very much appreciated !!! … I’m very aware of the dangers of Lipo type batteries and how to treat them … I’ve been flying remote control things for years and do it commercially as well.
The input though has been very helpful and I think I’ll stick with protected for anything that it doesn’t matter if the light suddenly cuts out and AA / AAA for anything like cycling where a dimming light is a much better alternative to suddenly no light.
Keeppower, Evva and Orbtronic are all just rewappers who add protection. Keeppower will also sell chinese cells rewapped with protection, you just need to pay attention to what you are buying.
Please do not get upset if correct data is posted on this forum.
Unfortunately there is no Sanyo anymore, and you should return from past to present time.
Data from May. 2007 that you are posting here will not save Sanyo name, and will only confuse new members even more.
It is Panasonic.
End of story.
I will post official data from official UR14500P manufacture’s domain (Panasonic): http://industrial.panasonic.com/cdbs/www-data/pdf2/ACA4000/ACA4000CE278.pdf
Sanyo name is still used by online sellers, but it should be completely changed to Panasonic by the end of 2016.
Naming new NCR18650GA “Sanyo 18650” only is completely wrong as well, but that is not right topic for this thread.
Issue with unprotected cells in lights without low voltage protection is in the lowest or moon modes where dimming from a depleted cell isn’t obvious. If you use a driver with LVP then you can use either type of cell (single). Lights that use loose cells in series should use protected cells or well matched and regularly checked cells since the driver cannot detect a cell imbalance. Assembled series packs should have a protection pcb that monitors the entire pack. Assembled parallel packs can be treated as single cells needing only LVP in the driver. A big advantage to series packs is the reduction in current, wire, and switch capacity needed so the pack can be mounted low in the frame to reduce the impact on balance. This is not negligible when the pack equals 25% or more of the frame weight(my mtb frame weighs just over 6 lbs) and the higher that weight is carried the less nimble the bike.
