[Review] SST-20 in FW3A is divine!

I would be surprised, but this matches what the researchers found. There was always someone who complained, no matter which tint was used… so no single choice will please everyone. However, the tints which had the fewest complaints were rosy to a degree of approximately –10 to –15 mduv.

It may also relate to the old idiom about rose-colored glasses. The phrase didn’t come from nowhere. Humans, in general, seem to find a touch of pink to be a bit more pleasant. Meanwhile, the counter-idiom of jade-colored glasses (or being jaded) refers to a more unpleasant outlook.

The ones I see discussed most often are the Lee minus-green filters. For example:

$2 for a swatch book, if you’d like to try a few.

Neutral > Rosy > Green is my order of preference.

Compared to super green LEDs like the FB4 SST rosy ones look much better to my eye. However if I have a neutral tint (FD2 SST 20 and my good tint lottery 219cs in my D4) I find I much prefer it to a particularly positive or negative DUV.

To me the SW45K looks great next to super green LEDs, but when I compare it to any emitter that’s remotely neutral it looks pretty bad (even if it ends up making me perceive all others as “green”). It’s offensively rosy in the same way some are offensively green. That’s just my experience anyway ¯\/¯ The FD2 is as close to perfect as I’ve seen so far.

Has anyone tried minus green filter on glasses?

haha, that seems to be what people want :slight_smile:

these will substract maybe a bit more duv than required

Ah ha! It’s actually a Locus that merges the BBL and the Daylight Locus. Very cool. It does so by using the 5000k-4000k region to transition.

But… WHY? If the Daylight Locus is more green than the BBL, what is the supposed advantage of “merging” them this way? To say it another way: What light source is anyone measuring that they’d want to skew the “results” in this way?

Are you seriously complaining about the color of daylight? The advantages are numerous for technical and non-technical reasons. We evolved under daylight. We want our lighting to agree with daylight. Not have some weird discrepancy.

I understand that our eyes are naturally matched to daylight. But, why merge the lines? What advantage is it in scientific testing of “fluorescent” lights, including LEDs? The two lines exist already, and can be measured against, so what does this add that we need?

EDIT: BTW, I’m not complaining about daylight. That would be silly! :stuck_out_tongue:

I love these new below BBL LEDs for photography!!!

Again, studies pretty clearly demonstrate we don’t want that. It’s extremely useful to have a proper daylight reference in many situations, but it doesn’t mean it’s what people want for general lighting, especially at night. User preference is much more important than achieving the one true neutral tint.

Ain’t that the truth. Looks just like a 219B SW45K to me :wink:

I think you are confusing rosy with warm. Warm light is awesome at night. But it’s still neutral.

If what Bob said doesn’t make sense, you may be confused. But this is not a bad thing. Being confused can be a very useful thing, if one is able to recognize it.

One day, students went into their physics class and the teacher showed them a large thick metal plate with one end very close to a fire and the other end a couple meters away. The teacher instructed the students to feel the metal plate, and they felt that the end near the fire was cooler while the end away from the fire was warmer. So the teacher asked the students to write down a guess about why.

Some students wrote things like “because of how metal conducts heat” or “because of how air moves”, but no one wrote “this doesn’t make sense” or “this seems impossible”. So no one got the right answer… which was that, just before the students came into the room, the teacher had turned the plate around.

The students failed because they did not notice their confusion, and thus ignored the most important clue they had.

Usually, when one is confused, it means that one has a false belief or a false assumption. The sensible way to respond to confusion is by trying to identify what that false belief is… and get rid of it.

In this case, I think the confusion may be caused by the false belief that humans in general want artificial lighting to be identical to daylight (or at least on the blackbody line). The available data on this topic indicates that most people actually do not want this, and instead prefer something a bit more rosy in tint. A perfect blackbody radiator may be ideal in a mathematical sense, but that does not mean it produces an ideal lighting spectrum for human use.

Or perhaps the confusion may be caused by the false assumption that Bob doesn’t know what he’s talking about. But he does, and he’s not confusing duv with CCT.

You are know TK, I’m getting tired of you deleting the relevant parts of my quotes to make me look confused. Let me quote that properly for you to read again.

Arguing opinions with opinionated people, why bother. Different people have different preferences regardless of if one is talking about CCT or Duv. Are these studies more than just surveys anyways?

My apologies. I may have left out another important bit too, and should quote it in case it was missed earlier.

It’s an interesting study, and I recommend reading the entire thing since it’s written in a very accessible manner compared to most research results. The findings are summed up pretty well below though:

Yes. People on average seem to find true daylight less preferable than a slightly rosy alternative.

In cases where there is no ambient light from the sun, like a flashlight in a dark house, yea I would believe most people prefer BBL to daylight if that’s what the studies/surveys say. But for the majority of use cases there will be daylight bleeding into the artificial lighting. Like street lights experience. Or houses with windows. Or security lighting. And when you have a BBL based light in one area, and it shifts into a daylight based light (the sun) weirdness happens. Sure, that weirdness goes away when the sun completely sets. But is it worth it? Who cares, because it is just a locus, and you can still have personal preference.

Before commenting any further, everyone should read this article carefully. It explains the NIST and other research into colour perception and preference TK and I are discussing and how it has influenced ANSI colour standards. Not only were very negative Duvs strongly preferred at all CCTs by most test subjects, but the cutoff for even perceiving a tint as white is also much lower at 4000K and below. For most people, a perfectly neutral Duv is not preferable after becoming accustomed to the light source. That doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be any neutral lighting, or that a daylight reference isn’t useful, but user preference is ultimately what matters.


I think we posted at the same time Bob_McBob. Yea I could believe that your vision could shift that far in a completely dark room. But daylight blends in from everywhere in our daily lives.