Got it. So far so good. I ordered balancing cables. Looking at the balancing connectors on the charger, the positive is the left pin, negative is on the right, and the balancing pins are the pins in between, correct?
I'm going to make a custom cable to connect to my power supply instead of using alligator clips connected to my test leads. I gutted a cheapo charger for charging my 18650 cells.
Hi guys,
Am new to this hobby charger business. I need balance leads to charge 18650s in series. Can anyone recommend any? That ship to UK?
Any advice for me in using this?
Thanks
ah i just read that i can charge in parallel? Good idea or?
Do the cells have to be at the same state of discharge though?
It is good idea if cells are of similar type and similar state of charge.
For example, charging two completely discharged 18650's in parallel = good idea, while charging e.g. full & empty 18650 is a bad idea. Also don't mix various types (e.g. charging 18650 & 10440 in parallel should never be done).
Thanks. Feel free to give me more tips and help.
xed888
In my opinion series is safer then parrallel, with parrallel the voltages of the batteries have to match or the batteries are trying to discharge and charger them selfs as soon as they are connected this can be a high quick burst of amps thats not good for the cells and will increase there internal resistance, witch will lower the amount of power the cell can give and shorten its life and it will affect the resting voltage of the cell over time in my opinion.
With series balance charging the cells can be diffrence voltages, diffrence mAh and even diffrent sizes, just more of a diffrence in either will make the charge time a bit longer, but charging multible cells in series will always be faster then one by one or 2 at a time with cheap dedicated charger.
If your intrested here is a thread on balance charging li-ion batteries, the tittle says 18650,s and 26650,s but it can be used for all the common torch batteries.
https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/3118
hobby chargers: ive got some pictuers in there of some handy battery holders
No, series is not safer. When using batteries in series, any capacity mismatch results in overdischarge which in turn can result in thermal runaway (explosion). With parallel,even 0.5V mismatch between cells is not going to result in any high current.
I disagree, for charging (balance charging) like what i was talking about i feel series is safest option, to get well balanced match cells to use them in series as balance charging goes on voltage not mAh, You can not get over discharge thermal run away from series balance charging, but this is why i feel hobby chargers and balance charging with a decent charger & DMM is important for multi cell lights, but with out a hobby charger you will never know if the cells match or not and most don't know if a cell is any good or not.
I also feel 0.5 volt difference between Lion cells is enough to get spikes from 0 to 5 amps depend on the cell and how many cells, one cell is trying to discharge and the next cell is trying to be charged every time there is a voltage difference with parallel charging or connecting batteries in parallel, it is not good to discharge or charge batteries that high (1.5 to 2c for 18650's) even if it is short burst, it will affect the life of the battery the internal resistance, the end/resting voltage voltage and how much amps it can give over time.
With other li-xx type batteries say li-po,s this number is much much higher say in the 100's, see i like lower charge rates but with as many cells as i can in series, over the years i have proven to myself it reduces the wear on the cells keeps the internal resistance lower for longer and the cells are balanced the best you can with regarding the internal resistance age and abuse and so on.
The quick short spikes from unmatched cell voltage with parallel charging will increase the internal resistance quicker then normal use if your not on to it due to the cells trying to charge and discharge them self,s very quickly, when they are connected in parallel, say if some one is new to hobby chargers where you have to think and match cells or voltages your self with parallel i don't thing that is a good idea.
I do understand where your coming from and with parallel charging if the cells are matched in voltage you can set the hobby charger to cut off for the mAh not just the voltage so you can have even cells that way, but this is tricky as cells age different and if they have diffrent internal resistance, and people using dedicated simple chargers no DMM will never know if the cells are slightly out in voltage or mAh and internal resistance, and the spikes do occur not just with charging but every time you put them in a parallel srt up like a light even if they come of the charger with a green light.
This talk is like whats best ford or Holden and so on, i know what works for me what is easier and what is proven to me by me and what Ive been using for RC for 20 years, all RC chargers (we call them hobby chargers on here) are made for series charging, all battery packs are charged and discharged in series or are mixed in a few examples (like laptops), but with more volatile type cells like li-xx this is where balancing came in, but each person will have there own point of view and will like to do it there way, but i will recommend what i thinks best for charging and whats the easiest way for the masses with little to no experience.
You will never get thermal run away from balance charging, infact when using batteries in series like in a multi cell light or an RC car its pretty dam hard to get thermal run away from over discharging, for one most have low voltage warning well my cheap trustfires do and so do my RC,s, most cells have a semi working built in protection, some thing major has to fail electronically, dead shorts mixed with a failed PCB or battery has to drop out all together, even then its more likely to be user error.
I have used a cheap set of batteries from byincoins in a multi cell light with a current draw of 2 amps over two cells one cell died it was reading 0.9 volt the other 4.1 volt and i still have all my fingers but the torch did dim witch gave the warning out not to keep pushing it, i have even dead shorted a good trustfire flame from manafont with no PCB for over 5 Min's and it did not explode and i have used many batteries in my 5 odd multi cell lights with diffrent internal resistance mAh and voltage differences of 0.05 volt + with no harm done, but i would never recommend any one to do this and do so at your own risk and please be careful when using multi cell any thing and you should at lest have a DMM (multi meter).
If you think really hard you will find you have at lest 3 or 4 + Lion or li-xx type batteries around your house not including your torch batteries and your RC batteries, gee not long ago i counted 15 odd at my place, laptops, camers, phones, mobile phones and all that jazz and most are driven by simple voltage chargers and there is not a house exploding every two seconds in my neighbourhood, the rare few would be the same as torch batteries, major electrical fault, user error or just supper unlucky, if you make and sell 100 000 000 000 items your bound to get a bad few.
Any way i stand by my comment on post #45 answering the question from post #42 series is safer for charging and more convenient in my opinion and from my experience.
Oh, if you're talking about charging, not discharging, then series is indeed safer (unless your charger is $15 clone of B6 that has crappy balancing precision, but most guys here seem to have either Accucel-6 or iCharger 106B+ both of which are OK). My bad.
I like how you mentioned that you over-discharged few cheap cells, shorted them out etc and nothing happened - because few days ago I gifted a Jetbeam BC40 to my cousin (he's a LEO) with pair of RediLast 3100mAh's and Xtar WP2 II, and even then, I was like "what if protection doesn't kicks in and one of cells get overdischarged?". Now I've got a little relief.
I'm my mind and my experience series discharge is still better then parallel, for the reasons above voltage difference, people with lack of knowledge and testing equipment and because the higher the voltage the less the current draw over the batteries the longer shelf life they will have and you will get more cycles (series the voltage goes up the mAh stays the same), parallel is only good to increase the run time, but it also increase load most times but over how many cells, (parallel the voltage stays the same the mAh goes up) but where i gets dangerous is when you have series battery packs and then connect them in parallel to increase run time, that's when the sparks fly and things can get messy with out perfect matched voltages and with lipos it can get scary as a small voltage difference they can discharge over 300 amps in a second.
Each has good points each has bad points and each person has an opinion and there is a lot more factors then just this.
The Accucel-6 is a imax b6 clone and it was not long ago most hobby chargers could not charge more then 5000 mAh and you could not charge or turn of the mAh cut off no matter the voltage so parallel charging was out of the question and there was no parallel charging boards but the battery pack where a lot smaller and cost a lot more even then your charger couldn't handle any more then 50 watts so we used to make up our own series y harnesses to charge our RC lipo,s for a helies, it was the only way we couple speed up the charge time.
I could chew through 8 to 10 lipo batteries in 1,5 hours but it would take me 3 days solid to recharge, so you would buy a couple of cheap chargers and make up series y harnesses and charge 2 x 11.1 volt 2200 mAh lipo,s as one 22.2 volt 2200 mAh battery pack on each charger, but if you didn't plug it in the right way as there was only one way they could go with out sparks, or the battery voltage was a tiny bit diffrent the batteries trying to equalize would melt the balance leads cause a dead short then there is smoke and flames and sparks, those little battery packs could give 60 amps constant draw and peak at about 90 amps so short two together.
I do to worry about gifting 18650 torches i have given my old man a bc40, kd c8, uf2100 and a couple of solarforce L2's with a Xtar WP2 II, i have given him tyred and tested torches and trustfire flame batteries that i know that work well and are closely matched in mAh internal resistance and age and one pair of crappy ultrafire 2400 mAh that only take around 1200 mAh but they have a great working and sensitive PCB protection, but now hes brought cheap head lamps with batteries and chargers so i worry a little but i know these batteries don't just blow up, you need a few failures to happen all at once and be unlucky.
The cell i told you got down to 0.9 volt that was unloaded if you put the 2 amp load from the torch trying to stay in regulation the cell would of been reading nothing, i have discharged 18650,s at 7 amps i have charged them at 5 amps and I'm talking the cheap ones (the realists and Panasonic's will do it) i have dead shorted them, you have seen i make up my own charging leads and balancing leads well i can tell you i stuffed up there a few times while making them, charging them and put the multi meter in the wrong spot cause i was distracted.
I feel these batteries are pretty safe, they don't blow up just cause they can, but you still need to have respect for them, but the scary stories you here are more from user error putting a flat cell in with a full cell not know the protection stopped working or never did, the torch having a short and or leaving it on for a very long time, but always respect li-xx type batteries, but one would think a lot of the horror stories would have to be because of eBay, cheap nasty recycled old laptop batteries with fault or no protection, and cheap nasty clone of an clone trickle charger and a clone of a high powered torch sold to some one who does not have a clue.
I feel I'm only expertly qualified to comment on one thing you have said, in post 47 you did not have a choice but I can answer that without argument or discussion that Holden (GM) is the best car hands down in Australia. I dont know what is going to happen with V8 Supercars next year with Nissan coming in but I digress. is it to late to teach an old dog new tricks? The more people talk about Lithium Ion batteries the more in depth it gets. Thanks all for your input for dummies like me as we do pick up snippets here and there that slowly make sense.
Bs it's the ford falcon ! I'm never answering a question for you again.
> and nothing happened
How long has it been? Where are the cells now?
The damage can be a crystal that gets formed that goes on growing til it pierces a membrane -- which doesn't happen right away, as I recall. I found that ih some of these results somewhere:
I found this amusing image explaining what conditions make Li-Ions to go poof:
Any experts here that can tell whether all of this applies for newest Li-Ion's (e.g. Panasonic's NCR-series with Nickel being used, the new 4.3V Li-Ion's, etc)?
I'll call a truce for now and we'll see what happens at Bathurst. Holden will be 1,2 and 3 of course.
Is the Turnigy Accucell one of the better budget hobby chargers or are you better of saving for the likes of the 106B?
Holden will win. But ford make a better family car !
This charger is a clone IMAX B6. You know what charger I use.
Any battery that's voltage gets that low should be recycled ASAP and never reused.
Hi benckie,
I have the Accucel 6 and was wondering where do you get the balance leads from? Did you make them yourself? SOrry if you already discussed this. I must have missed it if you did
I got my balance leads from eBay -= those things aren't all that easy to find. I didn't see them at HobbyKing despite looking hard. I got a couple of 4, 5, 6 and 7-way ones (One more wire than the number of cells then did some bodging so I can balance 2-6 cells on the 7 wire connector. One day I'll make something a lot neater with proper 4mm sockets for everything.
Would any of the leads on this page modify to do balance charging? I assume that you only need the correct plug end with the wires attached to plug into the balance port of the charger and the other ends of the wires modified to suit whatever battery holder, magnets etc that is being used in the charger set up
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__462__408__Battery_Chargers_Acc_-Balance_Leads.html
Yep they will work, but make sure cable type is JST-XH and it has male plug (to plug into charger). Cut off the female port and wire it up to your 18650 holders / magnets.
Radio Control Planes, Drones, Cars, FPV, Quadcopters and more - Hobbyking - for 6 cells
Radio Control Planes, Drones, Cars, FPV, Quadcopters and more - Hobbyking - for 3 cells
etc.