Safety Discussion; It’s NOT “just a flashlight” anymore!

[everydaysurvivalgear]

What if you shine a light into a drivers eyes and they are blinded and crash lol.

On a serious note i think i wrote about this the other day. None flashlight enthusiast buying high power flashlight with out any protection features. Also using high drain cells with no knowledge. Very different outcomes if you put a battery in reverse in a brand name light vs a BLF A6. The E40R i just reviewed has reverse polarity protection while the later does not. Also a very different outcome if you short circuit a high drain cells vs a protected cell.

As the number of users increases we will see more incidents that is how it works.

My little bros mate vapes and he had VTC5 in the vape i checked the cells for him and they where already down to around 2.7v each. I think that 2.5v is cut of for the VTC5 and he was still using them. I did have a smoke before checking lol.

[Lightbringer]

@Enderman

But it should be common sense that you don’t shine them at vehicles, just like you don’t throw nails on a road or throw rocks from a bridge.

Alas, “common” sense ain’t all that common.

Some idiot “kids” were just sentenced a few weeks ago for killing a guy after throwing chunks of concrete off an overpass at moving cars.

Years before, a kid in a safety(!) seat was killed by some idiots who threw a bowling ball off an overpass.

Me, years ago, I saw a half-brick bounce off the road in front of me and bashed the crap outta my car. Dent in the hood as it scraped over it, one wiper arm went flying off completely, other one was bent in the middle, had 3 holes in my windscreen that I could fit my fingers through, before the brick finally bounced up and over the remainder of my car. Got sprayed with shards of glass, was bleeding from my arm (just splinters, thankfully, and only little dots of blood), and that was it. Railroad bridge over an expressway.

See my previous post.

People are idiots.

Never forget that.

If something’s stoopit, some idiot will go and do it. Count on it.

[Lightbringer]

@zespectre

It’s not just blinding to that car passing by on the road, it can be blinding (at the right angle) to someone a couple hundred yards away or more because it has that much power. People simply do NOT understand that instinctively and as more and more powerful lights become common I think it is going to be a lot more important to educate people on light etiquette and actual safety.

A mis-aimed car headlight (at about 2500-3000 lumens) is a terrible thing from distances a half mile away. Imagine driving into someone’s 5000 lumen, turbo-head, throw monster even though they are a freaking half mile away and completely unaware that they are blinding you.

If we don’t start educating people now, the legal regulations will come, count on it.

Yep. Like I said…

[Lightbringer]

@DBSAR

The heat was so intense in just a few seconds, it changed it from black to the brown anodizing color.

Damn, that’s actually quite nice! :smiling_imp:

[Enderman]

@Lightbringer

Alas, “common” sense ain’t all that common.

Some idiot “kids” were just sentenced a few weeks ago for killing a guy after throwing chunks of concrete off an overpass at moving cars.

Years before, a kid in a safety(!) seat was killed by some idiots who threw a bowling ball off an overpass.

Me, years ago, I saw a half-brick bounce off the road in front of me and bashed the crap outta my car. Dent in the hood as it scraped over it, one wiper arm went flying off completely, other one was bent in the middle, had 3 holes in my windscreen that I could fit my fingers through, before the brick finally bounced up and over the remainder of my car. Got sprayed with shards of glass, was bleeding from my arm (just splinters, thankfully, and only little dots of blood), and that was it. Railroad bridge over an expressway.

See my previous post.

People are idiots.

Never forget that.

If something’s stoopit, some idiot will go and do it. Count on it.

Excatly.
So what are you going to do?
Ban concrete and bricks so that nobody does that?
They will just find something else to throw and inconvenience everyone that uses concrete and bricks for their intended purpose.

You’re never going to solve people’s stupidity so the best that can be done is educate.

[RobertB]

Heck, nobody seems to care that the D4 is a potential pipe bomb if the battery is accidentally put in backwards…

[Lightbringer]

@Enderman

So what are you going to do?

Ban concrete and bricks so that nobody does that?

They will just find something else to throw and inconvenience everyone that uses concrete and bricks for their intended purpose.

You’re never going to solve people’s stupidity so the best that can be done is educate.

People should have that tattooed on ’em at birth.

[Agro]

@djozz

In my experience anyone who is prepared to spend more than 2 dollars on a flashlight must be regarded as a flashlight enthousiast and usually knows a bit more about it. People who really just don’t care do not buy flashlights that costs more than 2 dollar, and find people who do a bit weird, so I do not see much danger ahead yet

You’re very wrong. There are many non-enthusiasts buying Maglite, Petzl, Led Lenser and similar brands because they seek quality tools.

[kiriba-ru]

Lithium-ion battery safety 101

[Agro]

@Throw me in to darkness

@Agro

You’re very wrong. There are many non-enthusiasts buying Maglite, Petzl, Led Lenser and similar brands because they seek quality tools.

Buying those brands definitely reeks of ‘non-enthusiast’ .
Lumens aside, they generally all use proprietary battery packs or primary cells. I can’t see much potential danger with those brands.

Still, these can contain multiple 18650s and do over 1000 lumens.

[djozz]

My labtop contains multiple 18650’s, it depends how they are employed if they are dangerous or not.

And 1000 lumens unless very well collimated at very short range by a good quality thrower flashlight, like a well-modded 300 kcd Brinyte B158 focused at 1 meter instead of infinity (how many of your neighbours have one of those?) will not make you go blind, we humans are designed to look into the sun inadvertently every now and then (up to 130 kcd!) without getting eye damage.

[slmjim]

Interesting thread. I'll be preaching to the choir here, for the most part, but OP asked...

Like any powerful tool, high-performance flashlights can be misused.

Nighttime in the country. Bubba has a beer in him. Bubba sez, "Hey y'all, watch this"

Or, mean kid/delinquent/bad seed has mommy's kewl new light, prowling the dimly-lit suburbs. Kid sez to companion, "Wanna see somethin' cool?".

Or, someone with truly nefarious intent knows exactly what he's doing.

Meanwhile, tired soccer mom/corporate CFo/CountyJudge is finally on their way home with the kids in the vehicle. Dim dashboard lighting and headlights reflecting from the road have their pupils well dilated for max night vision. They're instantly flash-blinded; hit squarely in the face by said bubba's flashlight brilliance or, worse, by stupid punks strobe. Bubba's idiocy results in simple flash blind. Punk kid's stupidity results in same, plus the disorienting effect of strobe. Nefarious criminal keeps the beam aimed precisely at the windshield, preventing any clear view of the road. Either way, worst case is driver/passenger(s) have a very bad night. They probably live. Or not.

Like any powerful object, some measure of responsible intelligence is implied in it's use

In grade school we were evaluated and graded on how well we followed directions. Safety documentation is widely available for LiIon cells. Every loose cell sold to consumers should come with safety instructions, IMHO.

When all else fails, read the directions. Think.

Seem to me, devices that don't have reverse polarity protection have a fatal design flaw. Pun intended.

Mistakes happen. The uninformed do get their hands on items of which they only know the basics. "Uhhh... this looks kinda like a battery. Weird lookin' one. Odd place fer a switch, here on the end of this fancy flashlight. Look, it unscrews! I think this weird battery will fit. Let's see if it works!".

We can use our imagination from here.

If we keep buying items that don't have the simple feature of reverse polarity protection, manufacturers have no incentive to remove that flaw.

I'm new to the HiPo light scene. It looks to me from a newbie's perspective that we're in a golden age of handheld lighting. Wish I had answers. It'll only take a few sensationalized news stories re: those "assault lights" before things are legislated to our detriment.

"Those weird batteries are dangerous. They don't even sell them a drug stores. The government should get involved".

"No one needs more than 100 lumens!"

"Those scary black flashlights will blow up! Think of the chirren!!".

"Ban them, before they start making bump-switches and shoulder things that go up!!!".

"Common sense flashlight laws!!!!".

[zespectre]

The more I think about this, the more I think that from this point forward, any light that doesn’t have reverse polarity protection is going to be a FAIL in the “Real World Reviews”.

[rondohatten]

the tenor of this discussion escalated quickly from flashlight and battery safety into namecalling and psuedopunditry.
shame, really.

[ValuseekeR]

Lots of useful info and considerations here for a li-ion n00b like me, especially the link to the “Safety 101” thread. I guess one benefit of the long shipping from Banggood is I have plenty of time to read up on 18650’s, etc… before my Q8 arrives.

If I can have an old man “Get off my Lawn!” moment, I’ve noticed headlights are getting a bit out of control. I’m much more worried about being blinded by other drivers than by a random punk with a turbo-charged flashlight. People with those HID LED headlights are basically just driving around with their brights on all the time.

/rant off

[SoCalTiger]

@danallen

What is worst real case of batteries causing a fire or explosion that you know of?

I googled “runaway” light can drew a blank. What is a runaway light?

There are several stories of people specifically being injured by lithium battery flashlights. Permanent damage and disability. There are also stories of flashlights exploding where the operators were fortunate enough that no one was injured. Unfortunately, a lot of these stories have been buried over time. Basically, the worst case scenario is that someone dies, you kill someone else (like a family member) or the rest of their life is ruined. Just Google “flashlight explosion”.

The biggest risks are multi-cell devices where the cells are unbalanced (or become unbalanced over time). Also, using a poor cell or low-drain cell in a high-drain application. Lithium primaries also seem to be particularly vulnerable.

Here is one to get you started. This resulted in permanent disability. This is a sticky on CPF.

Flashlight Explosion

Flashlight exploded in mouth. Permanent damage.

Solarforce Explosion

Flashlight explodes in Colo. man's mouth

Battery exploding on charger:
LITHIUM BATTERY EXPLOSION!! | Candle Power Flashlight Forum!!

Explosion in flashlight, doesn’t appear to have any permanent injury:

Ultrafire 18650 3000mA exploded

House fire. 2 stories:

BOOM! AND MY HOUSE WAS ON FIRE!

My house almost burned down today

Surefire explosion:
SureFire Kaboom...WTF over!...(PICS FIXED) - AR15.COM?

More:

My CR123A (GOLSTON) Exploded

OMG i nearly lost my finger!! | Candle Power Flashlight Forum!!
Cyclops Flashlight Explosion | Candle Power Flashlight Forum
Anyone Ever Have A Flashlight Explode? - General geocaching topics - Geocaching Forums
My flashlight exploded. | Candle Power Flashlight Forum

There are also lots of stories where vapers blew up their device in their face. Fortunately, those often involve devices which a higher current draw than most flashlights. Just Google “vape explosion”. One more reason not to smoke or vape.

- YouTube

https://www.cnn.com/2016/05/19/health/exploding-vaporizer-rip-tongue-trnd/index.html

[singularity35]

Lots of people here in my place, especially scooters, with 6-12 led light bars. Enforcement is basically non-existent. Really nasty to encounter on our dark nighttime streets. Flashlight enthusiasts are fighting back. I foresee something bad happening and stupid legislation coming.

We have especially stupid politicians and leo’s like that time a gang used hammers in a mall to smash jewelry display cases to rob a shop. The powers that be decided to ban hammers being sold in malls.

[Lightbringer]

@singularity35

We have especially stupid politicians and leo’s like that time a gang used hammers in a mall to smash jewelry display cases to rob a shop. The powers that be decided to ban hammers being sold in malls.

Wow.

That is pretty stooopit, even by politician standards. (I thought the US had a monopoly on that.)

Not like they can, ohhhhh, bring their own? Use wrenches? Use bricks?

Like I said… wow.

:person_facepalming:

[singularity35]

@Lightbringer

@singularity35

We have especially stupid politicians and leo’s like that time a gang used hammers in a mall to smash jewelry display cases to rob a shop. The powers that be decided to ban hammers being sold in malls.

Wow.

That is pretty stooopit, even by politician standards. (I thought the US had a monopoly on that.)

Not like they can, ohhhhh, bring their own? Use wrenches? Use bricks?

Like I said… wow.

:person_facepalming:

Haha yah.

[varbos]

I do worry about the ubiquity of products using bare 18650 cells and (other li-ions). These cells - even when protected - are not suitable for ordinary consumers.

I don’t like to see enthusiasts recommend lights using these cells to ‘ordinary’ folk. If your buddy or family member asks what light to buy…direct them towards an AA-based light. Keep enthusiast stuff for enthusiasts. Enthusiasts tend to have a little more knowledge and care about the products they use.

There was a guy killed late last year in a flashlight related incident. We don’t know exactly what happened. Apparently he was holding a flashlight in his mouth while looking under the hood. It exploded; severely injuring his brain and breaking his neck.