Sofirn why are you doing this? (a bit of a rant on new lights and the loss of enthusiast-favorite models)

LED Flashlights – General Info
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So I recently noticed that after Sofirn (@Barry0892 specifically) made a thread asking what enthusiasts want and why some models aren’t selling, a lot of the relatively timeless Sofirn models are getting discontinued or might be discontinued soon with no good replacement, as well as new releases refusing to take the advice, new models having questionable choices like rather-bad UI, cheap construction, and awful emitter choices.

A few examples of discontinued or soon-to-be discontinued models that would be perfect to update with new emitters and minor changes, to yet again become best sellers.
SP10 Pro: a very nice light (available in many colors) with excellent UI and an efficient driver, that would’ve been a drop-in upgrade to 519a, an instant classic.
SC21 Pro: smaller than the SP10, with many colors available, another drop-in upgrade from LH351D to 519a and a driver updated to have standardized flashing pads.
SC31 Pro: perfect form factor, great UI, would have been perfect with an SFT40, or an XHP50.3HI (3v version)
SP36 (BLF and Pro): great form factor, lightweight, would have been perfect with 519a, SFT40, or XHP50.3HI, all have been done by modders already with great results.
Q8 Pro: With SFT40 it could be a great companion to the Q8 Plus, in the form of a throwy sodacan with smooth reflectors (identical to the original BLF Q8).

Meanwhile, many of the new models being released have questionable design choices, like terrible emitters, bad UI (auto lock, linear ramping, etc), or other things like unrepairable construction, and generally no chance of an Anduril version being offered. They have one or two great things, but then manage to do the rest so badly that it removes the light from my interest. For example:
SC18: a spiritual successor to the SC31 Pro, with a smaller host and a neat looking TIR, yet it has mediocre UI and a terrible SST40 in an inefficient FET driver.
SC13: seems like it’s intended to replace the SP10 and SC21 with a very interesting optic, and yet it is a downgrade in almost every way, having an SST40 instead of the decent (but aging) LH351D, being much wider than either light, and a very difficult to repair press-fit bezel.
SC29: It has a fascinating TIR optic and very nice design, but the UI is far from good and it uses the extremely outdated XHP50.2, instead of the XHP50.3HI.
SC32: A great host, especially in the 519a version, but with a terrible UI.
SC33: A very nice host, with a large 21700 battery, a powerful boost driver, and an XHP70.3HI, it would be the perfect platform for an anduril light similar to the TS10 in concept, seeing how it uses an e-switch, but it inexplicably uses the regular UI.
IF30: Presumably a cheaper competitor to the Olight Marauder Mini, using the nice flood/throw reflector of the Wurkkos TS32, but inexplicably uses a very rare 32650 battery with terrible performance, over the more-common and better performing 26800 size, considering it can draw over 20A on the flood channel.

It feels like Sofirn is giving up on enthusiasts, high-CRI, and discontinuing the models that made them as ubiquitous as they are, now becoming yet another boring manufacturer using only SST40 and XHP50.2 in the name of lumens, at the cost of everything else including long term customer loyalty from enthusiasts.

I’d love to keep buying more Sofirn lights, but they have seemingly given up on the enthusiasts that made them as big as they are, now discontinuing the classic nearly-perfect models after making scarce improvements on them for years, while better emitters get released and driver tech moves on from 1+FET drivers.

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reserved

Barry’s response and mine

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I’d add model C8F (triple LED) to this list… Not available any more :cry:

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Agreed. So many small changes that could be done.

Even chasing lumens: Acebeam are using 519A-V1 a lot. They aren’t as high CRI as 519A but still better than LH351D and brighter. I’d take them over LH351D any day. Although options for both would be nice. Maybe a cooler 519A-V1 and warmer 519A option.

Also, I’ll just say: IF30 Pro. 3x21700, Anduril. Like a DM1.12 with more power and more flood. Optional high CRI flood version. Sofirn’s first real big enthusiast light since the Q8 Plus was released.

Also, the SC31 Pro could be improved by just a new driver. Boost driver allowing XHP50.3HI for higher power, as well as the 90 CRI version. Wurkkos have been having a lot of success with the TS22 and it would be great as an enthusiast-oriented competitor, and as a smaller more pocketable alternative.

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I didn’t even know that existed, with SFT40 and Anduril it would be an incredible light.

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I kinda doubt they’d intend an 18350 light to replace their flagship aa/14500 SP10.

I’m actually interested in the SC13. I don’t think that bezel will be difficult to remove for an emitter swap. It’s shorter than the SC21 - actually, based on the 28.5mm x 64.6mm dimensions, it’s very similar to a D4V2 with 18350 tube (which I’m looking at right now). It certainly makes for a short, but chunky, light. I am worried that the optic will produce many rings and be pretty floody. I’d want it to take advantage of the big diameter and be a tube-style pocket thrower but that would be tricky to mod a deeper optic due to the bezel. Maybe I’m talking myself out of it now…

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I was thinking of modding an SC21 Pro to use a TS10 MCPCB and optic, with a shallower bezel, (to make it around 5mm shorter) but then I realized the bezel thread is unique so it’d need custom parts. Also I can’t buy colored SC21 Pros anymore, and black hosts are boring.

If you can still find it, an SP10 Pro modded with an Osram CSLNM1.TG and the smooth reflector from a Convoy T2 (its sold separately) should be very nice, around 35kcd if my estimates are right.

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I don’t trust Sofirn to do anything right anymore. If they do come up with a half-decent model, like OP said, there’s always some dumb dealbreaker they put in there. That’s why I made sure to make a huge stink when they did their autolock nonsense. I told them I would never buy any of their lights with this implementation of that ‘function’. There’s nothing inherently wrong with autolock, but in my opinion it should never be a ‘default’ setting that has no way to be disabled.

Also, in my opinion they just put out too many models. I’m experiencing customer fatigue when they keep dropping new mediocre lights. Or sometimes there’s some novel feature or interesting design - but then they mess it up somewhere.

Instead of iterating on previously popular, successful models, and making those models better, they instead give us a lot of half-baked or “nearly there but has dealbreaker” type lights. Just like others have said, there’s a lot of previously released models that could be made chef’s kiss excellent by just a few minor tweaks. I’m still sour about the SP35T, even over a year later. It could have been perfect with buck driver. But no, Sofirn is too happy to chase lumens and sell their customers sh*tty drivers.

@Sofirn @Barry0892 If you are going to ask for feedback, you should make sure to actually listen. And hopefully tell your superiors/managers or whoever it is who is making decisions: don’t be surprised that when you stop listening to enthusiasts, then the enthusiasts may stop buying your lights.

I know that I personally have. I haven’t bought a Sofirn at all ever since the SP35T debacle. Unless a real reviewer that I trust (not fake review) gives a good take on the model, I will pretty much ignore it. Fool me once…

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Interesting idea with the SC21. I wonder if the bezel thread is a standard metric trapezoidal size. The SP10, for example (and Wurkkos TS10, Convoy T2/3) uses M19x1.0. I’ve had luck buying a tap and threading brass plumbing fittings to make custom bezels for those lights.

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They might be a standard thread pitch, but I don’t have the tools to make a bezel from scratch, and it definitely wouldn’t look original (like the TS10/SP10 hybrids I love to make)

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I don’t have a lathe or mill but with enough patience (slow going, needing to make jigs, etc.) you can do a lot with a drill press, rotary tool (Dremel-like), and cheap belt sander. Finding the ‘perfect’ plumbing fitting to start with is easily half the battle. You want to do as little work as possible to the raw piece when you don’t have the correct tools. Maybe I’ll try the SC21 if I ever get bored with the TS10 or T2/3.

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I’m not going to be their advocate but I do understand this approach. Lumen numbers sell the lights. And I’m nearly sure most of typical noob users won’t even notice the driver differences except for the UI. So there’s a simple justification to that: they need to make money.

I don’t think enthusiasts make a significant share in their sales. Enthusiasts are picky and always expecting discounts :rofl: However they are helpful in developing lights so it’s no good be away from them either.

I’m just imagining how vast market the China must be by itself. This leads me to conclusion making cheap lights with high lumens advertised just pays off. Should we blame sofirn for such approach?

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Barry made a thread recently, asking why their enthusiast lights (anduril-based designs and warmer tint hi-CRI lights) weren’t selling as well, and that he couldn’t understand why the lights weren’t selling. A lot of these lights were developed in conjunction with BLF/enthusiasts.

The fact that he created a thread just for this - and to ask for feedback directly from the BLF community - suggests that the drop in sales numbers of enthusiast lights was enough to get on the radar of Sofirn/their shareholders/etc etc.

I do concede that enthusiast community makes up only a % of their market, but they knew from the get-go what it entails to make enthusiast-focused lights. A few popular models were made in partnership with our members here. They’ve been on this rodeo many a time.

I’m not blaming them at all. If all they really want to do is to make sales - by all means, sell the hotrods. But the fact is, they’re still coming to enthusiast forums and platforms and still seeking this market out. Which suggests to me that we’ve still got their ear, are of value to them in some form, etc etc. And if that’s the case, I will continue pestering them to make better lights then they have been. I always DM their staff on various sales platforms, and I even have Barry’s number on Whatsapp.

Look at the contrast of how Wurkkos handles things. Back in July - Terry admitted that he didn’t even know what a buck driver was. He thought it meant ATR. After some back and forth, they finally figured that what we meant were constant-current regulated drivers. I was a very loud complainer about the TD01 (again, they had listed it as BUCK initially, but it turns out they meant ATR), I messaged them on AliEx, Terry on Facebook, and posted here on BLF and on reddit.

Terry heard, and they went back to the engineers to get it done. Took them nearly 5 months of work, but they ‘re-released’ the upgraded version as the TD01C this month, and to some fanfare in the enthusiast community. The reviews on driver performance have been promising. Is it Acebeam/Zebralight levels of regulation? Probably not. But it seems to be a damn sight better than what they originally had in the TD01. And hopefully the buck driver designs start to trickle into their other models.

For the market segment they’re targeting, a company like Wurkkos is a unicorn.

I don’t expect Sofirn to do exactly the same as Wurkkos. They’re their own company, so they do their own thing. However I am hopeful that maybe the new driver designs make their way over from Wurkkos - the both of them being sister companies under the Jinba Tech umbrella, after all.

I’m sure making cheap hotrods is a pretty good business model. Coming from a developing region of a SEA country myself, Sofirn is still very popular for those types of lights. Big lumens go brrrr. But for whatever reason, they still want to keep in contact with the enthusiast community. If Barry or whomever stops posting non-sales posts on BLF, then we’ll know what’s happened.

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Between the crap FET drivers / green emitters of of Sofirn and Wurkkos, and bad UI of Convoy, I’m pretty much done with those similar brands. Now I’m actively looking at higher brands of flashlights to buy next. It’s expensive, but I will buy less of them if it means they are higher quality.

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Ow, that hurts. I think I got every version of the C8F since the original with the XP-Gs.

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I wonder what the market is for Sofirn/Wurkkos. Their lights are not nearly bad enough for the 1-billion-lumens-flashlights-soon-to-be-forbidden market, but otoh almost every flashlight is flawed somehow, be it driver electronics, firmware, choice of LED. There was some momentum in the past to step up, instead they just extended the portfolio to a gazillion of similar, still flawed lights. Same quality, just more of them.

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Why is everyone slamming Sofirn and praising Wurrkos, isnt it the same company. Is it the case that Wurkkos listens to BLF members but Sofirn does not?

For example Wurrkos updated the TD01 to TD01C model for better driver based on the feedback from this site. I thought that was cool.

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SP10 Pro
SC21 Pro
SC31 Pro

I dont know their sell numbers for these lights, but I only hear good words from review and I also owned plenty of them, just because anduril and their compactness, which is great for edc.
Just as you said, they could simply upgrade the led and I would buy them again.

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Barry made clear it isn’t. Same factory, different companies.

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Got it, I always thought Wurrkos was more refined anyway.