Can you link me to that please?
Ultimately, Hank is the person who has responsibility to make sure the product is properly tested. Toykeeper is not a tester. She has responsibility to make sure the features work, which she did. Should she have caught the “suicide bug”? Perhaps. Certainly if she was a tester, yes. But, she’s not. The bug is hers, but it’s not her fault it wasn’t caught.
The D4v2 is a small project, and likely lacks the resources to hire a proper tester. I think Hank assumed Toykeeper would cover testing, but as it turned out that was not enough.
More than anything, I think what is learned is that Anduril is becoming far too complex to properly test and manage, at least for the small projects it is used for. There are just too many features, or perhaps the code has become unwieldy after lots and lots of editing, or the hardware it runs on introduces too many variables to control.
If you want a safe light with reliable features, get a light with a simple interface, preferably from a big manufacturer.
Pocket-rockets from small companies with tons of features are looking inherently unsafe. But they are fun. Think of them like hover-boards. Fun, but they might hurt you if you’re not careful, and under worst-case scenarios might even catch fire.
Post one on this thread:
You will also need pogo pins. Once you get everything, you’ll have to put it all together. If you are new to soldering/reflow/etc you can either take this wonderful opportunity to learn a new skill or wait for the Emisar kit to be developed (should be easier to assemble).
Apparently Hank immediately began getting things together for the kit. I’ll just wait for it.
Even large companies aren’t immune… I recall something about the Samsung Note 7 not too long ago.
As far as I am aware, TK did extensive testing of the code on this light, as she presumably does with anything she releases. The issue here is that this bug is fairly obscure and easy to miss unless you happened to have the light in muggle mode, not physically locked out, were using a discharged battery, and left it alone for about 15 minutes (or more even). She hasn’t mentioned exactly how she tests her code or the lights themselves, but from her posts (and the quality of her contributions) I feel she is pretty thorough and consistent. She shouldn’t have to justify herself to those causing drama in this thread by outlining her testing procedures
I am a systems administrator, and work with thousands of machines each day… Bugs get through. The software running on these machines is made by some pretty large companies (Microsoft, Apple, Canonical, Oracle, Adobe, etc) with large budgets. I’m certain they have many testers for their products, and yet mistakes are made. I think a lot of the time it is because it is nearly impossible to predict all the ways someone could break the product. In my field we joke that the “users” (people who use the systems we are responsible for) are the best at finding new ways to break things. Sometimes it isn’t even the fault of the software provider, it is just user error.
I agree that when using something potentially dangerous, you should be aware and careful.
I own several tools, which could cause damage to property or even loss of life if used improperly. Most of these do not come with a manual outlining all of the ways one could hurt themselves. Instead they usually give you some basics (“saw is sharp”, “caution HOT!!!”, “don’t look down the barrel”) and leave the rest to common sense. For me, a device containing a high energy cell with the ability to cause fires or occasionally explosions is something I take serious. Long ago, when someone did something objectively dumb and hurt themselves, an older brother or uncle would probably make fun of them and they would learn the lesson “I should not do that”. These days it seems that person would see this as an opportunity for litigation and some sort of settlement. I wish people took more responsibility for their own ignorance, and reacted proportionally to the situation.
The above is not directed at you “WalkIntoTheLight”, and I appreciate your comment.
Thank you for that link.
She wrote it. ToyKeeper did not test extensively her new “safe mode” for more than 5mn.
Here is the result of her “methodology”:
Not only that she didn’t test it more than 5mn, moreover she didn’t even use fresh batteries for her test :
Is English your first language?
Here is a definition for Extensive
It is inherently a subjective word. For example:
I feel that her testing was pretty extensive, but perhaps your point is that it could have been more extensive. I agree that it could have been more extensive, but not that she was negligent in not being more thorough.
The other bit is that she said:
Which does not mean she spent less than 5 minutes testing “muggle mode”, rather it means that she didn’t do a test of muggle mode in the “off” state past 5 minutes in with a half-empty cell.
The button popped off on one light… this is not the intended function of the light, but it is hardly the house fire you seem to be imagining.
this is willful ignorance. Obviously she tested the light for more than 5 minutes. She probably spent more than 5 minutes carefully replying to some of your comments.
If you registered here cause you bought a buggy D4v2 i’m sure one of us could help you get your light fixed in the coming week(s) but your posts aren’t really contributing anything to the topic.
If you are in the US I will offer to help you flash yours when I get the flashing parts and successfully fix my own.
Remember, you are buying budget Chinese flashlights from a very small shop with little manpower. This is the cutting edge of the hobby and as such you are an early adopter and get all the fun and not so fun perks that go along with it.
If you want a compact light with an advanced UI from a US company maybe I can suggest Zebralight though i’m pretty sure they are not willing to share anything about their testing procedures.
I like your response better than mine. Thank you for keeping a cooler head.
If the guy just wants help to fix it, I’m sure there are many on here willing to help a newcomer out. Once I figure mine out I’d be happy to help anyone I can reasonably. I assumed from his tone that he was here to drum up some “cause” for some sort of frivolous something or other. Seems that the trolls are targeting TK because she is here in the US and possibly accessible instead of an untouchable (realistically) foreign entity. To me, this all stinks of “Caution: HOT!” on coffee cups and “ouch! my back!”
This reminds me of the Boeing MAX, must not have had any full time testers either?
Humans are fallible. I wish the “age of outrage” was over already…
Agreed, nowdays everything must be escalated to OMG the world is ending status so more will jump on and echo OMG the world is ending. This is mere noise and really does not get anything more done and sure does not resolve anything faster or more accurately.
I for one love the D4V2 and will never have regrets about picking one up and will pick a second up for a play/firmware modding platform. I am not worried, my girls 12 and 16 love my lights, use the heck out of them and also understand they are tools, not toys.
There is hope for the next generation!
I haven’t received mine yet, but I’m excited. Starting with the BLF Q8, I became a ramping acolyte. I learned about Anduril shortly after that and flashed it to my Q8 and then a D4S. Every light since then has either had Anduril or gets it soon after it arrives (I’ve modded a few headlamps looking for the “perfect” one… still looking). The D4V2 looks absolutely fantastic. I hope there is eventually a Cu/Ti version of it.
Dude… I am in my mid 50’s! 
I am not sure there is hope for most of the next generation.
But, we digress… Let the doom and gloom continue!
Boeing knowingly and willfully skipped testing and ignored results that would have cost them time/money.
If someone signs up here to ask “Please help me get my light fixed”… awesome. We can help.
But if someone signs up to ask “Please give me a damning sound bite so I can call in a drone strike”, there’s no reason to cooperate.
Of course, one can’t always tell which is which, but it sure sounded like bait… and that impression has only been reinforced by later comments.
That was my impression as well.
I haven’t met you, but I have seen enough of your words and work around here that I believe (almost said “know”, but I read your post elsewhere about knowledge) you are not one for negligence or sloppiness. You seem a careful and responsible person, and your contributions here have made this new hobby even more fun for me. Thank you for what you do!
I don’t disagree with that. However, my main point is, “I think what is learned is that Anduril is becoming far too complex to properly test and manage.”
I don’t think this is Toykeeper’s fault. She’s just adding more features as people request it. But at some point, it became too complex to properly control and test.
A flashlight isn’t a smart phone or a desktop computer or a networking system. Most people expect a flashlight to be full-proof: turn it on, it works; turn it off, it works. People don’t expect it to potentially burn down your house. At some point, the Anduril firmware passed the point of “safe and simple” to “complex and potentially dangerous”.
People need to understand that high-output pocket lights with complex firmware might not be as safe as what they expect a flashlight to be. It should be safe, but this has taught us that might not be a realistic expectation.
So I just learned of the now infamous bug... And of course, made some popcorn and sat down with this thread... Wow it's like a war zone, there's a lot of references to posts that aren't here anymore ;)
So I'd like to start by thanking Mr. Admin, because the thread I just read has clearly had some work done...
Next, I'd like to thank TK and Hank. Some companies would quietly fix the bug and pretend nothing had ever happened. Others would not be in the community to begin with, and maybe never even know the bug existed.
Next, I'd like to thank some of the more prominent members of the community. Most of the posts I've seen on the good end of the scale, where I felt like looking at the username, it was someone I recognized and already respected. To list some (but not all): CRX. DB Custom, pinkpanda3310, Lux-Perpetua, and even Terry Oregon, who was planning on using his light nearly exclusively in Muggle Mode and is therefore more affected by this than most.
On-topic: This is quite the convoluted little bug. Many things had to go wrong for this to happen. I don't think it's unreasonable to have missed this. I do think that perhaps some users have misunderstood this light and a Muggle Mode in general. To me, Muggle Mode would be for handing to a friend to use for a little bit in the hopes he didn't completely destroy all the configuration I'd done on my light. Honestly, my D4 might be better to hand to a muggle friend than an anduril light without muggle mode, because there isn't really any configuration to get destroyed, and even if he hits himself in the face with turbo, the light isn't going to overheat.
My experience, though, with muggles, is that they always start clicking rapidly. I'd expect some percentage of muggles to click six times and exit muggle mode anyway. I'd also be handing them a light with an unprotected cell (the same kind used in all the exploding vapes) and which I already don't trust to pocket-carry without a physical lockout.
I will admit, I don't own a D4v2 and I don't know if I'll buy one in the future, but this bug wouldn't change my mind one way or another, even if I knew I'd be getting a light with the bug. My interests have wandered a bit, and my D4 with Luxeon V is as much single-cell hot rod as I need. I also found that I think I just want something in the neighborhood of 1%->20%->100% mode order with a stepdown on high (I don't even mind timed or thermal, just halfway-well configured). Lately I've been carrying my CRX UF-T1 and not needing anything else.
Anduril is a lot of fun, and even better as a showcase and inspiration for what you can do with flashlight firmware. I'm glad I have it on one of my lights. The work Toykeeper, Hank, and so many others have done is so valuable to the community that I'm not even sure how to put it into words. And TK has also responded in this thread in a way that would make Mr. Rogers proud, especially in the face of some of the comments I've read (and others I've seen evidence of, but have apparently been removed).
So I understand people are very worried about this bug. It seems like this bug ould probably kill the light and damage the battery. At worst, if something particularly dangerous like a flammable black foam were left in front of the light, it could be very bad! But nobody involved with the light wants any of that to happen, TK isn't even profiting directly (meaning, receiving money as a direct result of sales) from these lights, and she is so invested in the issue and the community that she is considering risking her own safety to help. So, don't use muggle mode, have some patience, and a lot of good people will try to help make this right for you. And, physical lock-outs never hurt. My D4 is the only light I always store physically locked out ;)