@Wurkkos, I believe the driver design should be changed entirely.for a fully regulated linear driver.
It would be either at 3/4A, but it would be nice.
This is what I would like to see!
I prefer the AA capability to max output (as long as it has good output on 14500 and turbo).
I would be OK with no AUX LEDs when running on AA.
FB
how many lumens do you consider “good output”?
considering how people are killing their TS10 LEDs with H10 batteries… And considering that Turbo steps down immediately due to thermal regulation, what benefit do you seek from Turbo?
imo, Turbo is just for marketing claims… the actual useful output, that is sustainable, is about 300 Lumens for a light this size, more than enough imo.
Consider that HDS sets max output to 200 lumens, on a 16340 light that weighs more than double the TS10. iow, the HDS has more thermal mass, yet limits output to 20% of the Turbo on the TS10. We dont hear of HDS lights overheating, nor burning out the LED.
Running an H10 in mine. No issue. Turbo seems to last as I want to hold onto it.
But Maybe we shouldn’t be comparing a luxury 300 dollar show off to a 20$ light that while might have some issues on it’s first run is still a kick ass little light.
Something like the SP10 Pro driver.
That should give somewhere around 1000 on turbo with a triple LED - still a lot of output in a small host.
This also protects the LEDs enough when using high current batteries.
Supports AA batts with enough lumens for most tasks.
Anduril makes it easy to turn down max for those that don’t like the thermal step down happening so quickly.
If the TS10 had this driver (with aux LED when using 14500), I would have already purchased more than 1. As it is now, I’m resisting… barely.
FB
I really dont understand the emphasis on 1000 lumens
here is a runtime chart on the SP10 Pro… it does not sustain Turbo… Thermal regulation drops output to less than 200 lumens. And that is with just One LED. If there are Three LEDs, the Total heat will be even greater. (Im not talking about the theoretical lower power Per LED… Im talking Total power and Total Heat)
pic by gchart, is a link to more info
here is another 1000+ lumen light, the FWAA:
.
pic is a link to zeroair review source
note thermal regulation limits output to less than 300 lumens
From what I have seen, placing my lights on my light meter, Turbo is not sustainable, it quickly falls to sustainable levels.
I am the Anti-Turbo.
imo Turbo is bad because:
- It ruins night vision
- It quickly falls to about 25% of initial output.
- It creates excess heat that is bad for LED life, and can injure and cause burns
People without light meters, who think they are using Turbo, dont realize they are not actually using Turbo output, and are in fact experiencing step downs to Sustainable Output.
I am the Sustainable Output Evangelist.
Sustainable Output is the HighWay to Heaven
Turbo is the road to Perdition… LOL
I pointed that out ages ago with my GTmicro. No visual difference between my H10 and EBL cheapies, at least not after swapping cells in the same light. Two lights and a side-by-side, and you might notice some difference, but is it worth cooking the LED for a relatively insignificant boost in brightness? Hell, while waiting for my EBL to charge, I dropped in a LFP cell, and it was bright enough for useful work, even at 3.2V (ie, near the bottom of a Li-ion’s range).
And with so little thermal handling, hitting the peak then being on the downward side of the parabola is too easy. You’d be generating more heat than light anyway.
I really don’t understand the anti-turbo view.
BTW, I knew I was taking the bait with my response. I’ve read a lot of your posts disliking the unsustainable turbo levels in many new lights.
These are not 1-mode lights. You can set it to lower output to limit the step down. You can use anduril to adjust max output and temperature.
But, those that want a short burst of high output can have that also. As long as there is working thermal regulation, what does it hurt?
And about the total heat produced… it only depends on total power. Doesn’t matter if it is 1 emitter or 3. 3 LEDs should be more efficient so that same power should equal more output (depends on specific LEDs used). Or, the same output could be produced with less power. I know these are small emitters and I didn’t bother to look up the output vs current, so lets just say the are close to one larger 3535 emitter.
I should have specified a “claimed” 1000 lumens light. They currently claim 1400 lumens, so roughly 70% of the output they have now. This is still a lot of light in a small package and would lower the output enough to protect the emitters. The SP10 pro claims 900 lumens and that is where I came up with 1000, figuring 3 emitters would be a little more efficient (and marketing will like the 1000 number). It looks like the SP10 pro does more like ~700 peak. Still more than plenty for this small host and battery. I’d be happy with that limit also.
Output sells. It looks like Wurkkos is pushing these little emitters too hard if we are seeing emitter failures, but I’m not going to suggest to Wurkkos to make a 200 lumen light just so it doesn’t step down.
Personally, I would pick a regulated 500 lumens if it was me, but that would still need a thermal step down, and I’m fine with that (no timed step down please).
I like my FET drive lights also, but they are not my choice in these small hosts.
FB
I thought I was reassured that a higher power cell wont hurt a flashlight?
That a light will only draw as much current as it needs?
@CRC2, you now figured out why many people dislike direct drive driver lights.
Essentially, a direct drive mode directly connects the cell to the LEDs, which means that the current is only limited by the highest resistance point of the circuit. With circuit that has a low enough resistance and subpar thermal resistance, this can become a problem.
Regulated drivers don’t have this issue unless you massively overspec the driver for the LED combo.
That’s why I will not be buying this light until it comes with a 3-4A regulated driver.
Having to literally choose cells to not kill lights is just super bad.
…This is what i was trying to understand from the begining…
“how to match a cell to a light?”
But kept being told not to worry and just stick a cell in a light and use it…
I dont know what cells I can stick in what lights now…
I feel unsafe again.
God dammit.
@CRC2 Don’t worry.
Here’s how to solve your issue:
- Do not buy lights with any kind of unregulated driving modes.
- That means you only buy lights with regulated drivers now(what I do honestly, lower brightness with the battery charge level has gotten annoying for me).
- Get Wurrkos to switch to a linear 3-4A driver design for the TS10 so choosing a cell is simple.
On my part, I will not buy a TS10 until it gets a fully regulated driver with no turbo.
Too late. I already bought all the flashlights I want/need. I dont really know what kind of driver any of them use…
Im just calling it quits for real this time. Thanks for all the help, but I need more than ya’ll can offer.
Bye.
Before we start talking cells it might be helpful to know why these emitters failed. I mean if it’s possible that there are bad reflows then that’s important to determine. If it’s too much current for an emitter without a heat sink on the pad or just too much current for this particular type/model of emitter…that’s different.
CRC most of our usual emitters won’t do this until you really go super hot rod with a light design. FET drivers that let all the juice flow will usually get hot but with healthy cells and our usual circuit designs there’s nothing to worry about. This light is a little different with the emitter choice. And again, we don’t seem to know any more at this moment about exactly why at least two light have failed.
(I for one appreciate high output/turbo modes on many of my lights. I’m not just using them indoors at low levels…and I don’t expect a light to maintain turbo for long periods. Sure is nice to have that brief extra reach and flood of light at times while outdoors, or for me, in many situations indoors at work. I’d hate to see it disappear if hive-think got to a point where everyone demanded low output regulated sustained modes…I mean those are great and we could use more lights with that circuit design but in daily practical use there is certainly a need for bright/turbo. FET turbo plus boost regulated modes would be neat.)
Uses for Turbo:
- When I walk outside the house at night to take out the garbage, I really appreciate turbo. It makes it a lot easier to see and not step on things like slugs or fruit fallen from a nearby tree and to avoid walking into spider webs. Since these excursions are so brief my eyes don’t have time to dark-adapt, so the extra lumens are very helpful.
- Another time turbo is useful when attempting to use a light to see something in the distance. A tiny floody light like this one won’t have the punch to see a couple hundred feet away…. unless it is used on turbo.
- Having turbo on a light also doesn’t sacrifice any functionality whatsoever compared to not having it. A light with turbo can still do everything that the same light without turbo can do.
- Reduction in useful lifespan of the LEDs with turbo is meaningless for most lights. Who cares if turbo reduces the lifespan of the LED in my light from 50,000 hours down to 10,000 hours. I’ll still have long replaced it with something better before it ever wears out.
- Sometimes its fun to wow your friends by showing them your “pocket-rocket” flashlight that puts out a ludicrous amount of light for its size. Good luck trying to impress someone if the max output on your light is only 200 lumens.
Of course this assumes the LEDs, heatsinking and battery won’t cause immediate damage to the light. Having an LED partially burn out from too much current after only 3 days is obviously not good. The combination of Vapcell H10 + full FET + small LEDs that can only handle 1.4 amps max is pushing things a bit too much.
We’re not asking for removing turbo damn it.
I’m just saying that direct drive for this kind of light is honestly useless.
Anybody that ordered the 4000K version had their light ship yet?
Ordered a black 4000K with orange aux on Monday and there has been no movement on the order.
Except that direct drive IS the maximum possible turbo…. the brightest possible output a light can produce given the LEDs and battery. And it is more useful than a dimmer “so-called turbo” for the all reasons I stated above. I use turbo all the time in my FW3A, Emisar D4v2 and FWAA with high-drain cells without issue.
I used and appreciated it with the TS10 with Vapcell H10. I found it very useful and was my most used mode. It’s just too bad that leds rated for 1.4 amps max pulsed input can’t quite take 2.3 amps from an H10 even with Anduril’s temperature regulation stepping things down quickly.
That said, I do still like the choice of LEDs in the TS10. The beam pattern, tint and CRI are great. It’s a much more sensible choice than the XP-sized leds in the FWAA. But clearly max FET + an H10 is a bit too close to the line for this setup.
Not yet. But looks like there’s an update on the original post of this thread saying they should ship by this weekend?