Just looking at the output and throw specs, I could see why Firefly had to reduce the price of X1L Elite 30% to make it competitive with the newly released E04 Surge. E04 has slightly higher output AND throw, so from that standpoint, it’s hard to justify the much more expensive original $113 price tag of X1L Elite.
Beyond just numbers, the 2 lights have other key differences and make this comparison so interesting to me. Beam shape of E04 is medium size hotspot with good & useful good spill, and X1L is very large hotspot (I LOVE this) with faint spill, for more of a fun light saber effect. E04 is smaller and fits in pocket better. X1L runs cooler, like it’s just cruising, and has among the highest sustained output in all of my small lights, around 1350 lumen when used at level Turbo-1 for my walk.
I’d like to especially bring attention to the LED in the X1L, FFL707A 5000k (but measures 5400k). In general my favorite CCT is 4000-5000k, because above 5000k light becomes blue-whitish and sterile to my eyes (personal pref, no right or wrong). I have a few lights in this range 219c 5000k, GT-FC40 5000k, 519a 5000k and 5700k. Of these 519a 5000k is my clear favorite, but only at Turbo brightness where it is indeed a very nice creemy white-yellow. Lower levels are too green for me such that I have to put Zircon on my Wurkkos TS32.
The FFL707A 5000k continues the trend of 351a and 505a: it makes everything else looks greener by comparison. But beyond comparison, by itself its color rendition is top notch, very very slightly pinkish as opposed to other FFL cousins. Overall the tint is very pleasant and beautiful, with “clarity” as a reflection of its higher CCT. If your favorite CCT is in the range 5000-5500k, I would give this LED highest recommendation.
I don’t have 351a and 505a in higher CCT so have no idea how they compare. This one OTOH is a no brainer for 5000k LED IMvHO. Once again FFL has a unique and unprecedented LED with extremely negative Duv, leading to a great tint. I love it.
Picture shows different shades of MAO: Convoy MAO is the most white, Firefly “Dark White” is a touch more off-white, and the Fossil Grey is a lot off white, to the point of being like a faint coffe-milk color (with a lot of milk).
Picture also shows the newest version of Firefly tail cap in the E04 Surge, another nice innovation by Firefly: lower chamber has removeable magnet, and captive clip doesn’t move any more when you take off tail cap.
Probably partly because I have a few of the whitish MAO already, I love the Fossil Grey of the X1L. It’s unusual and beautiful to my eyes.
The throwy Gaggione LLC59U (vs stock LLC59NF) that I mentioned above is available not from Gaggione, but by emailing Ivy at web site for Firefly.
Gaggione site is here Color mixing : LLC59 45mm PMMA collimator - Optics - Gaggione if you like to see info on the many optics, but note not all of these fit on the X1L (there’s a post somewhere on reddit about this). In addition I don’t believe there is a way to order retail/direct for just 1 optics. LLC59U is described as: “Ultra narrow Collimator, Ø 45 mm ultra narrow beam PMMA collimator without sprue”.
The throwy TIR could apparently cause ringy beam, and it does with examples I’ve seen with XHP70.3 LED X1L (and other lights) beamshots - Album on Imgur. With the FFL707 LED in my X1L, I won’t know until it gets here. I ordered it really out of curiosity, for me the stock optic is perfect as is.
The second X1L light I ordered is in US so should be here soon. FFL707A 5000k is so unique IME, 5000k CCT with negative Duv and very nice rosy tint, that out of curiosity I’ve ordered a second FFL707, this time at 4000k with true Rosy Tint designation.
I would give these 3 FFL LEDs (351A, 505A, 707A) in these specific tint bins my very highest recommendation because of their beautiful color rendition, but I should add that these are all LEDs at 5000k CCT or below. AND there is for example 351A 3700k tint bin that looks green IIRC. I have no experience so far with FFL’s higher CCT LEDs.
The second X1L is here, 10 days from China to LA. The finish is what Firefly call “Dark White” which of course is neither dark nor white. I would describe it as off white. I slightly prefer the Fossil White because it is so unique, but they are both beautiful.
They are both TIR throwers with typical single-TIR beam. The spill is faint as expected, but the hotspot is uniquely and VERY nicely large. For my personal use case I don’t like faint spill so this large hotspot makes up for it partly by having such large “target” illumination. I have to check but fairly sure X1L with this Gaggione optics has largest hotspot, by a WIDE margin, of all the small flashlights I’ve bought.
The FFL707A 4000k LED has pleasantly warm and rosy tint, much more than the 5000k LED. There is no mistake about the rosiness as this is another FFL LED with specific “Rosy Tint” designation (not all FFL LEDs has this designation on their website). All usual Firefly goodies are here: Lume X1 40W boost driver, constant current regulated (up to 95% efficiency), best button in the business, excellent captive clip, green reflection AR lens, superior craftmanship. A beautiful host that I would recommend extremely highly especially because of the 30% off sale price.
There are no longer any ffl351a rosy 3700k in retail circulation at all. There were very few of them to begin with because it was more of a test run which convinced Jack he should make a standard neutral 3700k and rosy 4000k completely separately.
These two make an interesting comparison indeed. I have both in rosy bin. While the FFL707a x1L does indeed have a nicer beam overall the E04 comes very close to replicating it with smaller head that ends up as a much more comfortable light to carry in a pocket.
Agreed. The small size of the E04 Surge is a distinct advantage. I like X1L only because for my use case the light stays on for >30 minutes continuously, so I prefer the larger head for better heat management.
E04’s beamshot is very interesting: first TIR, albeit Multi TIRs, in my collection that has a beamshot that looks so much like a reflector’s beamshot. It’s a reflector imitator (beamshot to come). Hotspot with a useful spill. I like that spill for a walk light so again here, I personally prefer E04.
OTOH color rendition of 5000k FFL707 is the prettiest high CCT LED I’ve had. AND it runs cool. If I have to choose one, I will pick half of an E04 and half of an X1L! Both indispensible and both IMHO “best available” in a walk-light collection.
I think this picture best summarizes the Fireflies that I bought so far. I like rosy tint but this is strictly personal preference (no right or wrong). If you like other LEDs and other tints, many are available on their web site. FFL Flashlights – Firefly outdoor
I like only 4000k-5000k range, and the FFL-707A 5000k (measures 5400k) surprises me with its quality. Very clearly the most beautiful tint among all of my 5000k lights. Very highly recommended especially if highish CCT, lowish Rosy tint, and a clean TIR beam comprise your preference. It’s on 30% off sale so if you’re interested, NOW is a goot time to buy. FFL seems to run out of LEDs in a bin sometimes.
Not all FFL bins have rosy tint! So if that’s what you like look for the Rosy designation or just ask.
I modified this fantastic picture from Reddit’s by Aftercode_F to show how my lights compare with other LEDs.
My personal preference is obviously the rosy LEDs with large negative Duv, but there are several other CCT and tint choices that I don’t have.
The E04 Surge with FFL505A 4000k is easily my most used light and most favorite (together with X1L), so I like to try a higher CCT version. But the next higher version is not 5000k, but 6500k, and I could see how it may not have the same beautiful warm tint. So X1L with 707A 5000k remains the most beautiful 5000k beam in my collection.
I’m assuming the 351a 4500k* means it’s a tint mix to approximately hit 4500k? I know it’s not your original pic but I’m curious about the 351a 4500k lol
I have no idea but I think you are right regarding the asterisk. I took a flashlight sabatical for a long time and only recently came back because of these extremely interesting FFL LEDs. My FFL knowledge regarding what tint and what CCT have been released, etc., is limited.
Personally I don’t like green tint and have generally avoided Cree XHP70.x series like the plague, after having been burned a few times. But I kept hearing about the good tint of this XHP70.3 HI R70 4000k LED, in particular the one that Simon has, so I decided to give it a try. Supposedly this has “better” tint than the XHP70.3 with better CRI R9050 spec.
Simon offers it in multiple hosts but I ordered mine in M21E because I like the throw of this host, despite of its atrocious side button (lack of travel and tactile feel). Well at least for me YMMV.
And yes the rumor is true, this LED is still no Nichia 219b or 519a dedomed, but it does have a pleasant color rendering. Spill is dominantly warm-yellow, consistent with the lowish CCT, but not much trace of green unless you nit-pickingly compare it against the most rosy of LEDs, like Nichia 219b or those Firefly FFL high flyers. The hotspot is visibly if subtly rosy (in a Cree!), and measures -0.0010 at Turbo level. I have pic of the hotspot that I will post, that hopefully will show this slight rosy tint.
Very nice description and images! The vast majority of photos erroneously depict all low CRI lights as green regardless of tint, but yours is much more accurate. I’ve got a 4000K SST40 replacement from Convoy, and it looks in-person very much like how the XHP appear in your photo!
On a white wall, a well-adjusted photo like yours would probably make low CRI and high CRI almost indistinguishable given the same CCT and tint. IRL, the low CRI would seem strangely pale and undersaturated due to the missing cyan and deep red.
Thank you, but if I understand you correctly, not sure about comparison of judging CRI between photography and “IRL”.
Photography: simply, the color of the beam of the flashlight.
CRI is A color rendering index (CRI ) is a quantitative measure of the ability of a light source to reveal the colors of various objects faithfully in comparison with a natural or standard light source.
Two entirely different parameters. 1 is a picture of an object, color of a beam, no more no less. 2 involves shining the flashlight on a color chart and compare how it looks against sunlight. To judge photography, you would take picture of color chart shined on by flashlight vs picture of color chart shined on by sunlight for example, and adjust the white balance accordingly.
(Other factors: in RAW software, it’s CCT and tint that are adjusted for WB and hence colors, nothing to do with CRI; need calibrated monitors to start any discussion about colors; photography is a 2D pic of a 3D beam, we’re looking at the side, just 1 slice out of infinite slices of a 3D beam - needs head-on beamshot even if this is a valid comparsion to begin with.) I think we’ve discussed this before about accuracy of photography and it gave me a headache. Could we please just agree to disagree haha?
At Turbo turn-on, these 2 lights below are similar as far as brightness and throw, but within a few minutes, the Convoy with Cree very clearly maintains brightness better and stay much cooler. Based on this subjective evaluation, it is the clear winner. I love the sustained brightness.
So… what not to like? As mentioned above, although the tint is very good by itself, the very least green for a Cree 70.x that I’ve come across, but… it is still slightly green. Especially when compared against a rosy high-flyer like the FFL505 Rosy. Red bougainvilla looks violet with the Cree, but absolutely pops with a vibrant red when shined on by Firefly.
Bottom line though: surprised at the good tint, and NO regret whatsoever for this particular Convoy + Cree purchase. This particular batch/bin of this LED from Simon is very good IMHO.
Convoy M21E Cree XHP70.3 HI R70 4000kDiscussion start HERE
CCT 4200k Ra=71
Duv Turbo = -0.0010 hotspot, 0.0030 spill
Output Turbo: 3200lm w/ AM04 Battery
Throw ANSI: 518 m
I’ve actually had much better luck than that with the rosy r70 xhp emitters Convoy had throughout late 24 and early 25. I’ve got a 50.3 that’s -0.004 DUV and a 70.3 that hits -0.005(BUT that one requires 48w in a Convoy L6 to get THAT rosy lol. I even got the little stainless steel Convoy AAA in a 4000k Cree but it’s only perfectly neutral instead of rosy at such low power levels.
sorry if I misunderstood.