Sorry if this sounds insulting, it’s not meant to be
A drop-in has three parts, some metal bits, an led and a driver.
It is the driver that has the input voltage range not the led,
It is the driving amps that dictate the voltage used by the led.
XM-L2 uses from 2.84v at 350ma to 3.43v at 3000ma - for 1048lm
MT-G2 (6v) uses from 5.61v at 350ma to 6.42 at 3000ma - for 2126lm
So for a bigger input voltage range an XM-L2 with a voltage (at 3000ma) of 3.43v will give you a 3v bigger range than an mt-g2,
eg: driver input using an xm-l2, 3.5v to say 12.6v (3 li-ion) is a range of 9.1v where-as driving an MT-G2 is 6.5v to 12.6v a range of 6.1v.
You keep avoiding the question. Why do you want to run 4 CR123a’s
The extension tube it to allow 2x18650.
If you really must run more than 2 CR123a’s, then by the smaller CR123a extension tube which is half the length. This + a standard L2 body will give you length for 3 CR123a’s.
But it still makes no sense to do this.
That’s because the Mt-G2 is a different emitter with a higher vf. It’s not the same thing to try and compare.
Yeah, because having something 4 CR123a’s long is an ideal pocket size :bigsmile:
Maybe he wants to be able to use the extension, but use CR123’s as the source of power, for greater flexibility. If you just pay attention to what he is actually saying, it is not that he wants to run a LED from 12v per se, it’s that he wants the greatest amount of flexibility with choice of cells. I tend to agree that a driver that could take input from 2.8v to 12v would be a pretty cool thing. I know it will be terribly inefficient. But, efficiency may not be the most important thing to some people. In the OP’s case, he wants to not have to depend on 18650’s for powering his flashlight.
Once again, you’re looking in the wrong direction. Not talking about the LED itself, but the driver. If he could get that driver in a P60 drop-in with an XM-L2, it would satisfy his requirements.
Yeah, well, we all got different ideas about what “carry” means. But, that’s not what this thread is about.
A P60 ground-up redesign with a pill that screws into the body/head is just not going to happen. It would no longer be a P60, its parts would only fit itself, which is the opposite of the one thing a P60 is good at. Even a non-threaded pill that was a slip-fit/light press-fit would kill the P60's one party trick, as the ID & depth of the bore in the head is different between just about every single P60 host version. A pill sized to fit a L2P wouldn't fit a 501B. There are even differences to the inside of the head on different batches of the same model, because that dimension is not critical when using P60 parts.
If you pay attention he says he wants to run 4 x CR123a and has said so in more than one thread.
And using a battery tube for the sake of using it is kinda dumb if you don’t understand why you should or shouldn’t.
But it’s all relative, the driver for the MT-G2 is thus, because it’s a different emitter with a different vf, not to piss off one or two people like the op that want to use it something else.
The 16340 size is nifty in that it has rechargeables and primaries in the same size, same as 14500(AA), and 10440(AAA), but the capacity of all of them pales in comparison to 18650 cells. If you are worried about an emergency then carry extra cells. A wide input voltage driver for single LEDs in a 17mm size capable of 3A or more isn’t in production (yet) but even if it were you seem to like the adaptability of the host for different cells but would rather carry a pocket full of empty tubes than a pocketful of cells??? This is odd. Odd is okay by me but a bit inconsistent. In an emergency I want it on now without having to fumble for it. Would you empty boxes of different caliber cartridges into a drawer with a bunch of different empty magazines? Threads like this can get a bit rude at times and it’s generally not the intent so keep asking and reading and plowing ahead with your ideas. You will either change your mind or change the world.
Actually I have been thinking that this thread has reached the point where it is beating a dead horse as I do not see a new design of drop-in happening unless a major maker decides to develop something or the military demands and funds it. Otherwise it is not going to happen. The P60 was designed long enough ago so it was a fairly powerful incandescent bulb and reflector combined for one makers flashlights which also proved adaptable for modification to convert it to LEDs when ones suitable for flashlights evolved. I doubt if history is going to repeat itself in this case.
Did Surefire public domain it or did they not patent the design or did the original patents run out, I am not sure? It became a semi industry standard adopted by many manufacturers. However it has never been main stream as historically Surefire has sold primarily to government agencies such as firemen, police, EMT and military so far as I know. They are interested in functionality and reliability, not necessarily state of the art lights. The hobbyist market such as we are is probably way under 1% of the total market so for most makers we are lost in the noise. Unless there is a perceived major demand for a new readily upgradeable flashlight then a new and better modular flashlight is unlikely to happen.
Just look in Home Depot, Lowes, Walmart and similar major flashlight sellers and see what is being offered. Most of it is CHEAP lights intended to be fed alkaline batteries rather than lights of interest to members. That is the market a new drop-in light would have to compete and succeed in. To me very unlikely.
You guys are getting a little ruff. I believe the original poster is new to the light scene and is looking for some guidance. P60 might be a little dated but it’s still got lots of potential for the new or old hand modder. It’s what I got started in and still use. With a good search over at CandlePowerForum you can find tons of host and dropins that have been made, modded or shoved together over the last 10 years. It has slowed down a lot over the last 2-3 years. SolarForce being the maker of so many different parts seem to have dropped about half of the flavors in bezels, switches and heads. Other makers have dropped out of sight all together. If this thread was 5 years ago we would be all over it with a 1000 post by now. But its not and the original poster is starting now. I think a group hug is needed here.
+1. With all the talk of how many lithium (rechargeable and primary) can be put in series by the OP, it is well worth the pause to consider safe practice in doing so. Not sure our OP is aware of the safety protocol required to use these batteries in series.
I recommend, considering the ‘emergency’ use requirement, stick to single cell usage. Really does simplify your requirements as well.
Sorry I wasn’t clear. You are right the driver has the range. I meant matching a specific LED with a wide range driver.
The range of the SolarForce drop ins are .8 - 4.2v matched with a XP-G that works with a CR123 or a RCR123 (I’d like to see it matched with a XP-G2), 2.9 - 9.v that is matched up with an XM-L or XM-L2 that works with 1 or 2 18650’s or 2 or 3 CR123’s or 2 RCR123’s, and 4.18.v matched up with a XP-G (I’d like to see it matched up with a XP-L or maybe a MT-G2) and works with 2, 3, or 4 CR123’s or 2, 3 or 4 18650’s. So I can squeeze the most light out of each configuration. I like the 2.9 9.v with the XM-L2 but I can’t use this with 4 CR123’s or 3 RCR123’s so I have to move up to the 4. - 18v. and it seems like a step down to be able to use 3 or 4 CR123’s and have a XP-G LED where with all those batteries I’d prefer an XP-L or even an XM-L2 with a smooth reflector.
I guess it is because I can’t predict the future. I may have fully charged 18650’s or I may be in a situation where I can’t recharge my batteries and all I have access to is CR123’s.
WE just don’t share the same mindset about when a flashlight is needed. Your thinking what do I need to deal with a problem right now. I am thinking what do I need if I am out for a week used all my rechargeable batteries and all I have access to is what I can scrounge from a store (which may or may not be open for business.) I’ve had to walk down 30+ flights of stairs in a skyscraper in the dark during a black out. So having something like the P60 on my person is better than the most efficient flashlight back home in my garage. I’ve been in a train accident where the car goes dark and a flashlight is a great help. And I’ve been in snow storms where the power goes out for a week and there is no ability to recharge and I have to find non rechargeables batteries to have light. So although it might not make sense to you it is because I am trying to prepare for the unknown future, that’s all.
First, yes I agree we have gotten off track and are beating a dead horse.
Second, I also agree that the technology has been changing rapidly and most manufacturers are not designing state of the art machines YET. But just like tube radios were replaced by transistors these flashlights will eventually be replaced by more modular more efficient hosts and drop in (or maybe the term willl be changed to screw ins by then.)
and Third, yes it is sad that when you see what is being sold in most stores. Flashlights with half or less power sold for 3 times as much as what we pay. Unfortunately, that is nothing new. Most people who buy computers from a retail store are buying machines that are already obsolete. Yes they get the DVD burner and can get on the internet. But the chipset is already over taxed because it is the wrong chipset for the demands of the next 4 years. So when buying a flashlight or a Computer know what you are buying.
I really thought when I started this thread it would find people who have lots of experience building drop in and in the middle of their last build said to themselves, damn I wish xxx would make this xxx piece like this to make it easier to assemble. I though people would contribute all their accumulated ideas and in theory we have some radical designs for new pills. And maybe one or two of you who are really good with tools and have access to a workshop might even make one or two of these designs and post them. Maybe it would actually amount to a commercial design but I thought it would break some new ground, just for the fun of it. But I agree the thread is pretty dead.
I guess there’s just a bit of conflicting desires. If you’re 30 stories up you will have whatever’s in your pocket. At that point I’d want the longest runtime cell I could EDC and that for a p60 is typically an 18650. At home or for a situation where charging is doubtful I have primary cells and the short tube(I also happen to have a solar charger but the newer ones are better). Running multiples in series is only done safely with cell monitoring/balancing pcb’s built into a pack the way laptop packs and modern power tool packs are made. That’s the main reason we don’t do it in flashlights. Sure you can stack up protected cells but one of the most common problems is the difference in cell length between protected and unprotected cells and this gets worse the more you put in series( the springs just can’t take up that much of a difference).
There are lots of things we can’t do because of limitations in current tech so we prepare based on what we can do and mess around with stuff on the edges. 2 years ago I was told I couldn’t run a nanjg driver with more than one cell in series but I thought otherwise and so did a few others and when the MTG came out there was a driver ready for it. I didn’t come up with a new idea since others else had already applied Zener diodes to the problem but I did spend several months ignoring naysayers and supplying updates to the few that were curious. Then, as now I did a ton of reading to learn what I could and adapted my ideas accordingly. In the end, my idea came to not much but in the process I learned quite a bit more than I knew before.
If you’re serious about this then consider all of the things that go into a design of the type you want. Look at each piece; the host and it’s different tube length possibilities and the drop in and the many different types and attack a weak link. At the moment you seem to see one but don’t yet have the knowledge to define it, narrow down the specifics, propose a solution, and work towards a goal. “P60” is a simple concept but has a broad scope of application and it’s greatest advantage is flexibility. Two distinct disadvantages are poor heat dissipation and limited driver space. It’s the limit on space that is the real issue for a good buck driver and given the space taken by the ground spring one that begs for a redesign of the pill. Why not work on that? Go to kadomain, DX, and other sites and look at what goes into a buck driver. Read reviews about multicell series lights and the drivers they use. Then go back and ponder how to fit that into a 17mm cylinder while eliminating the ground spring. Things are changing about how lights are being designed but this isn’t the case with drop ins. Come up,with a better pill and you will have done something significant. Or, work on your soldering skills and join the work being done to developed new drivers. Pick something you are curious about and apply you’re passion to that and you will get help along the way. Merely expressing dissatisfaction and a desire for someone else to fix it probably won’t find fertile soil. Dive in and become a mod nerd.
I didn't help here at all and the biggest reason is because the P60 is dead, as far as I am concerned. I have gone through all of the "what if's" and decided that #1- There is no format that will allow for the "modular method" and in fact most people would not even mess with the "Modular format" - No real interest. I have a bunch of designs for that and I came to the conclusion that, "who would really want to carry all that extra stuff around, especially if you really needed it now?". No one would. and... #2- It would be expensive. No matter what anyone says, modding to make "Quality parts", costs lots of money. Modding to make stuff just work, may be cheaper, but the "Quality isn't there" I know that all too well, from modding with almost nothing for years.
There are so many flashlights out there and so many uses, that I do not believe a "one style fits all" will ever become a reality. A thrower needs a very large and deep reflector. A floody light needs a smaller shallow reflector. As far as drivers, the complications of trying to have a "one driver fits all", prohibit it ever happening. One of the biggest problems would be efficiency. Anyhow, if I wanted to have a versatile light and still be able to use it from whatever batteries I could scrounge in an emergency, I would be looking for AA and AAA batteries only, Alkaline. They are still the world's most popular and most used battery for flashlights.
There are just too many individual thoughts and likes. I don't like small lights for anything any more. I like multiple cells, but I will not tolerate those long lights that look like hell. It's just my own likes and dislikes and there are as many different desires as there are people. We never agree and we all have a different take on things. That's why if you want something, you have to research it and design it yourself, since you are going to be about the only one who will like it exactly as you made it.
