Why do you need high voltage?? What do you think it offers?
Any driver that has a large voltage variation, as a rule isn’t as efficient and will be worse performing than something more tailored for a more specific use.
Remember the phrase “jack of all trades and master of none”.
Their XM-L2 drop in’s do have a wide voltage range and allow 1 or 2 Li-ion in Series. Most p60 drops are capped at 4.2v and only allow the use of 1 Li-ion, accept for those few as listed earlier, which generally don’t perform well when run on lower voltages.
The XM-L2 is a current emitter and the output claims seem quite acceptable for “real” lumens on a light such as a p60 host. This means you’ll be able to use these on high for prolonged periods. Higher output simply means higher amp draw and more heat, which means you can’t use them in the same way.
BTW - If you want to pump more voltage than 2x Li-ion through a LED like this, then I’m afraid to say, that is just showing a misunderstanding of voltage and LED specs.
Why? Do you have a rational to this reasoning?
An XP-G2’s vf is the same or very similar to an XM-L2. The difference is in physical size, which affects beam and throw. But it’s not about voltage.
Flashlights are often emergency tools. There will be times when an 18650 won’t be available and so the flashlight needs to be able to work with alternate batteries. Being able to use 1 or 2 18650’s or 2, 3 or 4 CR123 give me maximum flexibility. I can’t predict the future my tools are there to help me deal with the unpredictable. Besides I like the mix and match flexibility.
Please see my answer to comfychair. I am not against 18650’s. As a matter of fact I had saved 3 battery packs from an old Dell laptop and found that they are full of Sanyo 2700 mAh 18650’s. I have pulled one pack open and there is a NiteCore D2 Charger on it’s way to me now so I can charge them up. But one of the things I like about the Solarforce P60’s is they are great mix and match so I can build a flashlight from 1 CR123 to 6 CR123 or more, or alternately 1 18650 to 3 18650. But of course the drop in or head must be compatible with the battery configuration. I like this flexibility and the knowledge in an emergency I should be able to find some batteries that work. I suspect I can find a AA magazine that would fit in the P60 so I can even use AA’s in a dire emergency.
The only weakness is the drop in’s must match the battery configurations. So I can’t use 2 CR123’s with a low voltage drop in, but, yes, I can use a single 18650. I can use 2 or 3 CR123’s or 2 18650’s in the medium voltage drop in (2.7v - 9V) and if I get a high voltage drop in (XP-L or MT-G2) the high voltage drop in needs to have a range of 4v - 18v. I like this flexibility it is one of the things that attracted me to the P60, and in particular Solarforce hosts.
Sorry Bushwhacked I don’t know what you are referring to by “all”. I value your opinion which is why I ask questions.
As for the search function. I have to tell you I have been reading quite a bit. Some of it goes over my head, but I am getting some knowledge. A few weeks ago I didn’t know this whole culture existed. I thought my fascination with flashlights was my own hang up. So I am learning, and visiting various vendors websites. I am also shocked to learn how many frauds and fake flashlights and parts are floating around the internet.
I do appreciate everyone’s help, and contributions to this thread. But the thread is voluntary. If people think there is some logic to the idea of making drop ins more modular I would hope some of the ideas would eventually find there way into the manufacturing process.
I do appreciate the link to the XP-L drop in. I have been doing some research on the XP-L and whether it would make a better drop in than an XM-L2 and an alternative to a MT-G2.
You make the assumption that everyone who is interested in these items has the same physical dexterity, good eye sight and ability with tools. Why do we have to limit people who can enjoy this pleasure to those who are physically able?? I would think the easier we make it the more who can enjoy it. JMO.
I’m just trying to keep it as budget as possible, as flexible as possible and to squeeze out as much as I can from it without paying $100 for a flashlight that doesn’t do half of what we can buy as host and drop in for $32. I am no expert in the flashlight market but I can remember owning a number of Maglites, huge 2 or 3, C or D cell models, that put out very little light compared to what you can buy today. The little Solarforce Z-1 costs $15.99 and runs a XP-G2 on a single CR123 and puts out a ton of light, multiples of what those old Maglites did, all in a host the size of my thumb. I’m just trying to get as much fun out of the P60 host as possible and suggesting that a more modular drop in will add more people who want to play with these lights. If I had the money I would start my own line of drop in parts and I guarentee you that I would put all these solder and paste makes out of business because why get involved with all that time and expense when all you had to do was snap in the parts you want???
P60 is my favorite lighting system period. I’ve got lots of host and dropins. It wasn’t really until the XM-L’s that heat became an issue. Now I’m talking single LED dropins. What I could envision is a host that lets you screw the pill in from the underside, and is stopped by a lip. This allows all those exsisting pills laying around the house to still be used. Heat issues partially adressed. Reflectors dropped in from the top with no pill threads and aligned with insulation gaskets.
Yes the Solarforce XM-L2 does have a wide range. I own one and it is great for the medium range voltage. But you are limited to 3 CR123’s or 2 18650’s. So when I have the normal host tube it will take 2 CR123’s. If I add the tube extension it has room for 4 CR123’s but it can’t take 4 because that would be over the voltage limit of the XM-L2. (4 x 3.0V = 12v) So if I want to use the extension tube I have to put 3 CR123’s and a dummy 123 to make it work. I also can’t use 3 RCR123’s because again the voltage limit would be exceeded. (3x3.7V=11.1v) and certainly not 4 RCR123’s (4 x 3.7v=14.8)
Now if you look on the same Solarforce website at the K3 head with the MT-G2 LED it’s voltage range is 5.5 - 13V.
So with this I can use 3 or 4 RCR123’s or even 3 18650’s with a second extension tube. But as a practical matter the K3 head isn’t a carry light but more a home flashlight. So if I want a P60 size flashlight that I can use 3 or 4 RCR123’s then it has to have a wide high voltage range like that of the MT-G2 but still using the P60 head. That would mean maybe a XM-L2 or a XP-L with a wide high voltage range like that of the MT-G2. That way I would be getting the most light out of the flashlight, a long duration and still all in the P60 size. Now none of the current Solarforce drop ins fit that criteria. Bushwhacked did find a XP-L sold by Kaidomain that fits the bill and I may get it. Unfortunately it only has 1 Mode but still it puts out a lot of light and will take 4 RCR123’s or 4 CR123’s or 2 or 3 18650’s.
Sorry if my explanations are confusing. All I want is a flashlight in the P60 size that gets the most light and flexibility with more CR123 batteries. Can you blame me for wanting to get the most out of my tools. :>)
Sorry if this sounds insulting, it’s not meant to be
A drop-in has three parts, some metal bits, an led and a driver.
It is the driver that has the input voltage range not the led,
It is the driving amps that dictate the voltage used by the led.
XM-L2 uses from 2.84v at 350ma to 3.43v at 3000ma - for 1048lm
MT-G2 (6v) uses from 5.61v at 350ma to 6.42 at 3000ma - for 2126lm
So for a bigger input voltage range an XM-L2 with a voltage (at 3000ma) of 3.43v will give you a 3v bigger range than an mt-g2,
eg: driver input using an xm-l2, 3.5v to say 12.6v (3 li-ion) is a range of 9.1v where-as driving an MT-G2 is 6.5v to 12.6v a range of 6.1v.
You keep avoiding the question. Why do you want to run 4 CR123a’s
The extension tube it to allow 2x18650.
If you really must run more than 2 CR123a’s, then by the smaller CR123a extension tube which is half the length. This + a standard L2 body will give you length for 3 CR123a’s.
But it still makes no sense to do this.
That’s because the Mt-G2 is a different emitter with a higher vf. It’s not the same thing to try and compare.
Yeah, because having something 4 CR123a’s long is an ideal pocket size :bigsmile:
Maybe he wants to be able to use the extension, but use CR123’s as the source of power, for greater flexibility. If you just pay attention to what he is actually saying, it is not that he wants to run a LED from 12v per se, it’s that he wants the greatest amount of flexibility with choice of cells. I tend to agree that a driver that could take input from 2.8v to 12v would be a pretty cool thing. I know it will be terribly inefficient. But, efficiency may not be the most important thing to some people. In the OP’s case, he wants to not have to depend on 18650’s for powering his flashlight.
Once again, you’re looking in the wrong direction. Not talking about the LED itself, but the driver. If he could get that driver in a P60 drop-in with an XM-L2, it would satisfy his requirements.
Yeah, well, we all got different ideas about what “carry” means. But, that’s not what this thread is about.
A P60 ground-up redesign with a pill that screws into the body/head is just not going to happen. It would no longer be a P60, its parts would only fit itself, which is the opposite of the one thing a P60 is good at. Even a non-threaded pill that was a slip-fit/light press-fit would kill the P60's one party trick, as the ID & depth of the bore in the head is different between just about every single P60 host version. A pill sized to fit a L2P wouldn't fit a 501B. There are even differences to the inside of the head on different batches of the same model, because that dimension is not critical when using P60 parts.
If you pay attention he says he wants to run 4 x CR123a and has said so in more than one thread.
And using a battery tube for the sake of using it is kinda dumb if you don’t understand why you should or shouldn’t.
But it’s all relative, the driver for the MT-G2 is thus, because it’s a different emitter with a different vf, not to piss off one or two people like the op that want to use it something else.
The 16340 size is nifty in that it has rechargeables and primaries in the same size, same as 14500(AA), and 10440(AAA), but the capacity of all of them pales in comparison to 18650 cells. If you are worried about an emergency then carry extra cells. A wide input voltage driver for single LEDs in a 17mm size capable of 3A or more isn’t in production (yet) but even if it were you seem to like the adaptability of the host for different cells but would rather carry a pocket full of empty tubes than a pocketful of cells??? This is odd. Odd is okay by me but a bit inconsistent. In an emergency I want it on now without having to fumble for it. Would you empty boxes of different caliber cartridges into a drawer with a bunch of different empty magazines? Threads like this can get a bit rude at times and it’s generally not the intent so keep asking and reading and plowing ahead with your ideas. You will either change your mind or change the world.
Actually I have been thinking that this thread has reached the point where it is beating a dead horse as I do not see a new design of drop-in happening unless a major maker decides to develop something or the military demands and funds it. Otherwise it is not going to happen. The P60 was designed long enough ago so it was a fairly powerful incandescent bulb and reflector combined for one makers flashlights which also proved adaptable for modification to convert it to LEDs when ones suitable for flashlights evolved. I doubt if history is going to repeat itself in this case.
Did Surefire public domain it or did they not patent the design or did the original patents run out, I am not sure? It became a semi industry standard adopted by many manufacturers. However it has never been main stream as historically Surefire has sold primarily to government agencies such as firemen, police, EMT and military so far as I know. They are interested in functionality and reliability, not necessarily state of the art lights. The hobbyist market such as we are is probably way under 1% of the total market so for most makers we are lost in the noise. Unless there is a perceived major demand for a new readily upgradeable flashlight then a new and better modular flashlight is unlikely to happen.
Just look in Home Depot, Lowes, Walmart and similar major flashlight sellers and see what is being offered. Most of it is CHEAP lights intended to be fed alkaline batteries rather than lights of interest to members. That is the market a new drop-in light would have to compete and succeed in. To me very unlikely.
