What do you think of Holding to On/Off UI?

LED Flashlights – General Info 21700 Flashlights
21

It’s standard practice in modern electronics to have a press of the power button perform a toggle between the device’s active state and it’s inactive state. Press and hold for every device I can think of either does some sort of shortcut or force kills the device to off - some sort of special function.

I also can’t think of how you would do ramped dimming if press and hold turns your light on and off. I don’t have ramped dimming enabled on all my lights but it is something I quite enjoy, allows me to command the perfect amount of light for any situation, no more no less. It just speaks to me. Lights without ramped dimming feel very dated/cheap. Imagine if the volume on your phone or computer didn’t let you hold to ramp the volume output, and you could only click to cycle between high/med/low volume settings. Not a perfect analogy, but hopefully helps illustrate that some folks can find high value to having at least somewhat fine levels of control over output of something, and it’s almost impossible to give this (in a single button) without ramped control. My phone only has ~20 output levels and that pisses me off. The jump between level 3 and level 4 is way too much.

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22

This is quite true. It seems easier than having to four clicks to lock and unlock the light.

I think that the delay is not critical, for me, in most situations. I can’t think of any situation where a second or two delay would be critical in my use case. The intuitive part… well with many lights, the majority of which are instant on, I do tend to forget having to hold for on/off when picking up a light that needs it. Which means I immediately start checking to see if I mechanically locked out the light. If I carry a light like this for a bit, it really becomes a non-issue.

I have to admit that I would buy a light without the delay when given a choice (wanting specific features). I do this more for consistency rather than one method being intrinsically “better” than the other. If others feel the same way, and it seems that the instant on is more popular, then a manufacturer that produces a hold for on/off light is sort of fighting with what people are used to.

23

I don’t like it even a little bit. Many years ago I did carry a folomov 18650s as my EDC for many months maybe even a half a year. And I did get used to the hold for on and off. And it wasn’t terrible as long as I didn’t use any other lights for any other purpose. When I did use other lights it became problematic. Fortunately a better EDC came along and I was glad to be done with that hold for on and off ui.
I sold one of those 18650s models to a friend and after a month or so he became so frustrated with it he threw it in the ocean.
From off, press and hold should go to moonlight. Period. End of story.
If you’re worried about lights coming on in your pocket then either lock them out or shut them off in moonlight mode so nothing is burning if they come on.
A light would have to be very special in other ways for me to ever consider that ui again.
I should note that the folomov
18650s does have an optional tactical mode with a click on and click off for turbo only. And I do still sometimes use that light for some things in the work vehicle. I only use it in that tactical mode. I don’t even remember how to switch it back to the press and hold UI.

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24

I also don’t like hold for on/off for a few reasons:

  1. Inconsistent with how the vast majority of lights work - too confusing.
  2. I like light to be on immediately when I press the switch.

The only ‘hold for on/off’ light currently in my collection is the Knog Bandicoot headlamp.

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25

Regarding accidental pocket activation
I don’t think hold for on/off provides any protection whatsoever against accidental pocket activation. I’ve had accidental activations with lights that use hold for on/off many times.

Based on my experience EDC’ing my light in my pocket for decades, accidental activation usually occurs when stuff shifts around in my pocket and presses against the button. This usually occurs when I change positions while sitting down for an extended period of time.

This results in a constant press on the button inside my pocket for an indeterminate time (until I change position again or notice my pocket getting hot). Because the activation is caused by a long press of the button, rather than short clicks, hold for on/off provides zero protection.

Proper protection against accidental activation requires lockout or a well designed, recessed button. Note that long press-and-hold electronic lockouts have the same weakness as press and hold for on/off. Good electronic lockout should require a sequence of at least 2 rapid clicks highly unlikely to occur by chance inside a pocket.

Regarding faster mode change
In theory, mode change should be slightly faster with a long-press for on/off and then quick click to change modes, but my experience is this isn’t really so.

Even with quick click to change modes you still have to press repeatedly to get to your desired mode. And you might have to press a lot of times to get to a lower mode than what you started with since this UI type only allows mode changing in one direction.

In contrast an interface like Anduril lets you ramp up or down and allows you to get to any intermediate brightness in 1-2 seconds. I doubt having to single click 3 or 4 times would be any faster.

Also, at least in my experience, the most-used function of any flashlight is “on/off”, not “change brightness mode when on”. Making a lesser used function easier to use than the most used function is poor design.

Of course this all just my personal opinion, based on my experience. However, other people feeling the same way could help explain why hold for on/off is so unpopular among many members of this forum.

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26

Good point, the Acebeam x75 essentially has a safety. I’d like to see similar physical toggles on more lights. I’d prefer the safety as an option instead of needing to use hold-for-on.

27

I too hate how non-granular phone volume controls can be.

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28

Hold for off is a dealbreaker for me. I have exactly one light with it (Manker U21) and will never get another one.

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29

Hold for moonlight, 2click for instant turbo, blah blah blah. Like, c’mon, does everyone have such short memories?

Hold for on/off was the default for a long time when eswitches first came out. There was even no such thing as moonlight-, let alone firefly modes. Everything and its grandmother was just L/M/H and maybe “turbo”.

It’s only since flashlight OSes like narsim, andy 1/2, etc., came into being and was being adopted by some mfrs, and then some more, that those things even became popular.

Everybody’s making it sound like all those shortcuts were there since the beginning of time, when it’s NOT the case.

It’s like “I’ll never ever buy a car without pushbutton-start! Keys? Feh! What garbage! Ancient history! I can never get used to driving my sisters car with those damned keys!”, etc. Like, really? Is turning and holding a key so crippling vs pressing a button, that someone literally can’t get used to it?

If the preference nowadays is for click on/off, and all the shortcuts, etc., great. I like 'em too, and most of my newer lights have that, too. But a lot don’t, and I still got plenty that still have hold for on/off. I didn’t toss them in a pile and set them on fire or anything.

I still got tail-clickies, twisties, side-clickies with hold for on/off, etc., and… what? Should I burn them? Are they really unusable?

Like, c’mon… They’re just different styles, different preferences. Lighten up. Stop the hate. :joy:

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30

I think this is VERY dependent upon the form factor.

A normal smallish sized EDC or larger? No. Never. Hold for on or off is unacceptable. Now, hold for moonlight? Sure.

However, for a keychain EDC? Sort of a half-yes. The trouble with hold for on, is that if the button ends up accidentally pressed and for long enough to trigger ON, that’s not good. Double-click for turning on a keychain EDC makes a lot of sense for me. Hold from off is momentary high. Once on, hold for off is sensible. I wouldn’t use double-click for off, as that’s usually a placeholder for turbo from whatever current mode is on.

31

I found long presses less intuitive when using a light for work. Short press for on or off seemed to be the best unconscious approach. YMMV

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32

OP manufacturer or seller, but im pretty sure he do not know what is Anduril :laughing: Asking questions like now year 2014 :rofl:

33

All my enthusiast lights run Andúril (free SW purist) so I’ve never really given the control scheme a second thought. So here come the (purely subjective) thoughts.

  • I can totally see the reasoning behind quick mode change and it’s true that waiting for the light to ramp to the level I want is a bit annoying sometimes, but at the same time I don’t use my lights at levels other than moon/ manual memory/ turbo all that often.
  • 1H-to-on kills the (subjective) instantness a dedicated EDC torch offers over a phone flash.
  • I like being able to positively access the mode that’s safe for dark adapted eyes from off. Are there any 1H-to-on UIs that do direct moonlight AND mode memory?
  • As for the question of accidental discharge… I’ve had several instances of vaporizers that are 5C-to-on turning on and going supernova in a pocket or backpack. The backpack is fully capable of hitting all the button press sequences imaginable. High power stuff only goes in my backpack securely locked out.

This is all theoretical but it would be nice if Andúril had the config option. I might be missing the pros based on my lack of experience with 1H-to-on.

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34

Disadvantages: Not intuitive for most people. You expect a simple click to turn on or off. However, you can get used to it, if it’s a frequently used flashlight. But technically for mid to larger flashlights, I’d avoid using this kind of UI.
Advantages: Generally it helps avoid accidental activation, but you can provide other means to prevent that like electronic or physical lockout. Once a flashlight is on, it’s easier to single click to advance modes instead of something like press+hold. But again, once you understand the UI, it’s not a big deal.
Notes: Most of my mid to large flashlights do not require press+hold to turn on or off. Most are single click or double-click. Press+hold is reserved for turning on at lowest setting. Most of my keychain sized flashlights require a double-click to turn on, and a press+hold to turn off. I do have a Skilhunt H03 RC that requires press+hold to turn on and off. I sometimes forget this, but it doesn’t take very long for me to remember when single-click does nothing.

I’d worry more about the UI design itself. I would avoid inventing something different from what is commonly encountered today. Take a look at the UI’s offered by Olight, Lumintop, Sofirn, and Wurkkos. And, I would suggest looking long at Anduril. It is programmable and can be confusing for the less adept… but there is a simple mode for it as well.

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35

Yeah, imo shipping lights with Anduril in Simple Mode is the best choice for companies rn. It’s easy and pretty close to most “known” manufacturer UIs for non-enthusiasts to use without issues, and enthusiasts can set it up however they please in advanced mode.

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36

Also, the 10 clicks plus hold required to put the flashlight into advanced mode is complicated enough that no newbie is going to stumble upon it.

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37

…but a sugared-up toddler would manage to do in about 30sec. :baby::x::skull:

38

Giving any flashlight that can go above 100ish lm to a toddler sounds like severe carelessness in the first place :sweat_smile:

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39

Kids get momentary mode at a low ramp level, not even simple UI.

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40

I disagree. You know why? That’s 10 clicks steady. They can’t do it for more than 4!