Solar charger is on my list-of-preps-to-get. Good idea that is portable.
I’m starting a series of discussion on the SEP forum designed to look at various scenarios and ways to address, mitigate or even prevent (if possible) certain situations. Some scenarios are specific, some more wide open. They range from light and fluffy to worse case situations. The purpose is for folks to detail how they view the scenario and what they’ve done to address/mitigate/prevent the situation. Different people have different priorities based upon location, local weather, experience, skill sets, health and physical abilities etc. In this way these scenarios/situations can be looked at from many view points and perhaps bring something to light someone else hasn’t thought about or planned for. We can often learn from other’s experiences. Feel free to view, participate in, pass around etc. 
Scenario - inconvenient to worse case
Scenario #2 - inconvenient to worse case
I will be adding scenarios periodically.
I like to be prepared for most situations but i want the coles notes versions, what to keep in house, in car and traveling, thats small (car/travel), cost effective and light (car/travel)
The two threads I linked in post #41 above have proven interesting and fruitful. Additionally, I moderate on several different forums, two of which involve this topic i.e. emergency preparedness and self reliance. I started a poll that has proven rather interesting. The premise of the poll question was that electricity has stopped flowing (for whatever reason, long term or possibly permanently) and what level of preparedness the voter felt they had currently. There were four categories to vote in overall.
Currently;
3.75% feel they’re pretty much screwed and have not taken any steps at emergency preparedness.
46.25% felt they’d be okay for up to a week.
36.25% felt they’d be okay for up to several months, perhaps even several years depending on the situation.
13.75% would survive and thrive regardless of whether electricity was restored or not.
Interestingly, a couple just didn’t see the sudden lack of electricity on a large, or even regional scale as being detrimental. I offered this for consideration;
I can’t quite agree with your list, panic, looting and rioting did not happen during the power outage of 2003, it only lasted 24 hours but little harm was done. Longer outages may cause these problems but lets hope social progress brings up far enough along that we are past this type of behaviour (perhaps not quite in our lifetime)
The first 24 hours did not have massive deaths, but it was warm august weather. In –40 winter weather its a different story, if its a localized outage then people are evacuated to functioning centers, if its half of North America you would have a problem since most people have natural gas heating which needs electricity to pump and the furnace needs electricity to run. Only people with wood heating would survive more then a day or those with passivhaus buildings.
I assume they will leave the criminals in the jails, they will just have to bring them food and water and pass it through the bars until they run out. One would imagine they have such a scenario in mind, power outages are infrequent but not unheard of. I assume outdoor exercise will be cancelled and no internet, video games or conjugal visits will be available.
Here is the 1977 overnight blackout that was limited to New York city, 550 cop injuries, 4500 arrested, more than 1600 stores looted, more than a thousand fires.
http://abcnews.go.com/Archives/video/july-14-1977-nyc-blackout-10252811
Yes, but this was more of a localized incident, and one in which there were alternate sources i.e. generators were still able to function to support critical needs and the time frame was well within the constraints of fuel limitations. Take the situation to the next level where back up power is unavailable and the duration of the event is substantially longer (perhaps permanent) and it’s quite a different story.
That would be nice, but probably not realistic. Many folks need very little provocation to riot and loot. Add in the stress of an incident coupled with first responders (read law enforcement) unable to respond and many will consider it open season.
Depending upon the size of the prison or jail, it can be a massive undertaking to feed and house hundreds and often thousands of inmates/convicts on a daily basis. The jail in our county alone houses between 3400 and 4300 inmates. That is a LOT of power, water, food and medication on a daily basis. Most will have massive back up generators that kick in when the power goes out. But two points to consider; first is what if the back ups are knocked out by the event? Second, these things suck fuel and it will only last a very limited amount of time. If the distribution system is affected, and it will be, there will be no resupply. So we have a problem of available energy to consider. Second problem is the amount of food and water that will rapidly run out. Third is the staff themselves. Is the relief shift able to get to work if such an incident takes place? Probably not. If little or no relieve is available for an extended duration then we have a major problem with containment. So with no energy, food, water, medication available it won’t be long before they are either released or a riot breaks out. Either way, they’re getting out one way or the other. And where will they go? Back into whatever society is currently operating.
Hospitals also have generators, as do facilities such as military bases. But again, if the distribution network is interrupted or has collapsed then the back ups will run dry VERY quickly and again, if they’re even working to begin with.
Many don’t understand, or care how outdated and fragile the power grid actually is at this point in time. We’re not talking about conspiracy theory or tin foil hat stuff. We’re talking logistics and the reality of the situation, and not just in this country. Again, has the power grid been cyber-attacked by foreign powers? On a limited basis, yes. Has the power grid been physically attacked by forces unknown on American soil? Again, yes and the station is still off-line today (and it was attacked last year). Are there sleeper cells in this (and other countries)? Again the answer is yes. Unfortunately this isn’t fiction or a bad ‘B’ movie. It is the reality of the times in which we live.
The solution isn’t to become paranoid or to panic. Rather it is to take logical steps to prevent an incident as well as to mitigate one should it still happen. At least for the things under our control. Not much to be done about the solar activity and inclement weather.
As the ole saying goes, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Very sobering reality. And that was just one city and a limited duration outage!
In 1971, when Washington D.C. arrested 13,000 people, they were storing them even in the Washington coliseum, and Virginia (I forget where) after the jails overflowed , those people for instance were not fed or given blankets, and were getting their water from bathroom taps and drinking fountains.
Here’s a wiki article on the 1977 NYC blackout
If you consider over 50 million people to be local then what is not? That is almost twice the population of Canada and the population of the US is about 320 million so an equivalent of over 1/5 of the population was out of power.
Doomsday scenarios are fear mongering, what is more likely is local incidents, ice storms, flooding, land slides, sinkholes and so forth. I think its reasonable to prepare for these, and to do some planning for long term disruptions if and where feasible, but keeping in mind those are mostly academic problems, zombies are not roaming the earth despite their popularity.
I hate to say it but your looking at worst case you can invent not whats likely, as my 2003 example pointed out there was not wide scale looting and plundering, i am not saying this is impossible, what i am saying is we should focus on social progress for many reasons and a nice side effect would be to prevent this type of problem from occurring (also preparing for possible causes of power outages is a good idea as well). Looting and plundering is not human nature, and electricity is not the switch, otherwise how do the Amish survive?
I do not deny it can happen, i am saying loading up on guns and ammunition is not the answer, its just justification for fear.
I agree, but your prisoners being released concept is fear mongering, if everyone is out of food and energy and dying they aren’t likely to let them go, they are more likely to forget them and they die in their cells. Has Cuba let all their prisoners out since the collapse of the Soviet Union? The massive undertaking they undergo today is not mitigated by electricity and robots that do everything and would be immobilized. Electricity does not grow and serve prison food, transport medications, electrify the bars and concrete and so forth. How were prisons run in the old days before electricity? They still existed and the prisoners survived and were fed. Does electricity make things easier, absolutely it does. Does it power the lights, provide internet access, run microwaves and give heat, it definitely does. Do we require it to survive, absolutely not.
I also agree we should update infrastructure, but a certain political party likes to claim everything government does is bad and would rather let everything fall apart or let private businesses fix it at 10-50x the cost (especially their donors) so we have an impasse. Also only oil is worthy of subsidy so thats what we are supposed to use, renewable energy has had laws passed against it where possible. Plus infrastructure repair is not ‘sexy’
Notice the lack of the same in 2003 in the same city
Despite everything i have said i agree with you that preparation is a very good thing, but i think we should prepare for the likely first, then consider the massively unlikely
One party wants the government to run everything in our lives, but no party even comes close to thinking that everything government does is bad, it just wants it to return to it’s limited state, and only apply where it was designed to apply.
Privatizing, or more commonly, returning responsibilities to more local government rather than always the federal government, when appropriate, is to reduce costs, not increase them, these ideas worked for centuries in what was once a great nation, and are constitutional.
They can sometimes talk a good game but actions speak FAR louder then words, and since this will cause a fight i am going to stop there, since SB did add a non fighting clause to the rules at BLF
To begin with, Bort, this thread isn’t about politics and I don’t want that fuse lit. It is about emergency preparedness and such.
As such,
This is precisely what we are discussing. However, I wouldn’t use the term ‘massively unlikely’. Did a Carrington event occur in the past? Yes. Can it occur again, yes. Have foreign countries attempted (and succeeded) in cyber attacks on various parts of our infrastructure? Yes. Could it happen again on a larger scale? Yes.
FBI investigating possibilty Russia hacked JP Morgan
Has there been physical attacks on the power grid on U.S. soil? Yes. Are there sleeper cells in the U.S. and other countries? Yes. These are the simple facts and facts are not fear mongering. Facts provide the platform to put into motion efforts to avoid or mitigate a situation that has an increasing potential of happening. Ignoring it does not make it go away.
Who has suggested that loading up on guns is the answer? Having the means to protect yourself and your family is prudent, but is a very small part of a much larger equation. As a result, in my OP link I haven’t even discussed firearms.
No, it’s a factual analysis from someone who has spent nearly a quarter of a century dealing with detention and correctional infrastructure. As a Deputy that is one of my responsibilities (Sheriff Offices deal with courts, patrol and detention and corrections).
They were run using the distribution systems of the day. If the distribution system has been compromised then the end result is also compromised. This of course is not limited to any specific venue but can and would be a widespread effect. This is what the point of the discussion is targeting.
With respect.
Having been born and raised in hurricane country myself, and living and serving during the Cold War, when mass destruction and nuclear winter was the threat, and having lived in the midwestern areas and getting to talk to people about being snowed in and cut-off, and now living in earthquake country where the topic is the big one, and now all of us living in the time of terrorism, terrorist states, and the re emerging Cold War, I would say that most emergencies, call for mostly the same stuff.
Food, water, shelter, lighting, and some medical, and the means to protect it all, is still the rough outline of preparedness.
Living in the desert and in sub zero winter areas, is also a reminder that a simple car breakdown needs to be prepared for.
That is sortta the point of planning … people who plan check their spare tire every once in a while, they make sure they have the tools and know how and physical capacity to use them, they might even make sure they have a way to stay warm and hydrated and clean up and defend themselves if the need arises. I only know a couple people that carry two spares (I do when I tow a trailer), but I imagine very few carry three.
What I really wonder is how many would drive around with no spare if the car they bought didn’t come with one? That is MUCH more likely to be the norm than complaining about somebody with four spares! Really, how many might never have checked for a serviceable spare after they bought a used vehicle (we did when we bought a truck from an otherwise bright fellow who SOLD the spare for “weight savings”)? If you want to be helpful, find them and give them your advice!
Since a flat tire isn’t generally a worst case scenario, would a person who doesn’t plan because they don’t consider it a problem be the smart one, or would it be the one who did plan? Now what about people who dismiss planning because they haven’t experienced [blank] or they think somebody else will rescue them if they don’t sufficiently prepare themselves?
I really don’t care if somebody doesn’t want to plan, just don’t complain about others who won’t do what is begged of them from the because they are busy executing their plan. People estimate their own risks and then they should live with their own decisions. They don’t really need to complain about the guy with two spares who won’t redistribute give them his extra whenever they want it.
The jail/prison scenario? first thing is some guards & wardens will choose or not be able to even go in to work as problems present - all too soon there will be some prisoners left to break out or die and some will be let out to help or fend for themselves like everyone else … isn’t that obvious to everyone?
If you have a different guess, let others have their fun and spend their own resources the way they want, OK?
I still believe your blowing it out of proportion, i agree very much with being prepared for natural disasters because they happen with alarming regularity, but mankind wiping out scenarios are extremely rare. I would like to be prepared for such things just like you would, but the likelyhood is so small that we are far more likely to die from cancer, alzheimers or heart disease then catastrophic civilization breakdown.
its been mentioned in this thread, but what do you suggest for rioting and looting and mobs?
So jailbreak scenarios and planning are actually moot, if people want to get out of prison they should sabotage electrical systems since that will actually lead to being let free. Damn, people have been doing it wrong for so many years, people in prison and in movies try to remove themselves from the jail instead of getting the jail opened for them.
Your right, i didn’t mean to be rude or pushy, i am also a bit of a prepper, and i would be interested in home, BOB and car survival kits, but i think preparing for car breakdown and natural disaster trumps end of world scenarios, but if i can also prepare for those without much expense then i see no reason why not.
Here is a deal on a subscription to “Garden & Gun” magazine, for the wife.
TopMags offers a Garden & Gun Magazine 1-Year Subscription (six issues) for $19.95. Coupon code “DEAL1834” cuts it to $3.99.
