Which brand is better? Spyderco Byrd vs. Ganzo

EDC Gear for Flashlight Carriers
21

In your Pt. 4, you seem to be conflating a few issues and these issues are ideas, concepts and design features that go through the patent process and by doing so, the ‘inventor/originator’ owns that design for a term of years, which varies within product categories.

Another issue you seem to be conflating is the ‘copying of a patented design’ and the copying of something that’s never been patented (protected) before. Big difference there.

You feel that ‘patents’ “stifle innovation” and I’d disagree and if anything, they force somebody to come up with a better mousetrap, because the mousetrap you’re intending to copy, through no genuine creativity of your own, is already spoken for.

I have no problem with clones, as long as they’re not protected. Just because a person slap GANZO on a knife that is for all intents and purposes, a significant copy of a protected BenchMade design, with all of its patented features, hardly absolves them of blame.

Me copying 97% of a Luis Vuitton handbag and me calling it the ‘Chris Bag’ doesn’t cut it.

Most people aren’t experts in the manufacturing of the products that they end up purchasing, but they do lock in on the looks of X, Y or Z widget. Copying the features that define an item, or helps to build the manufacturer’s reputation for quality, especially if it’s protected, is theft, plain and simple.

Your Pt. 7, conflates copying something that has had its patent protections expire, with copying something that’s freshly protected.

Big difference there.

I’m a gun guy and I have a few Harris bi-pods. I remember when the patents expired on their BRM-S 6”–9” type bi-pod and the floodgates opened. I got a nice Outers/Shooter’s Ridge ‘clone’ and didn’t lose a wink of sleep over the I.P. aspect, but that’s just me.

No harm, no foul as they say.

Anyhow…

Chris

22

As usual, this comes down to an IP debate, but I am not conflating. I understand the issue. I just don’t see any validity in IP. Or patents. Granted, this is a moral question, not a legal question. Is copying the axis lock legal? I don’t care. Is copying the axis lock immoral? I say no; but I can see that an argument can be made.

23

Just for the record, I read the Wiki on your Libertarian, Anachro-Capitalist and I can see why you might take the positions that you’re taking in this thread.

Most of us live in ‘societies’ and societies function more smoothly when there are minimal rules, regulations and laws. Morality aside, we don’t generally get to pick and choose what R/R/Ls we follow and what we don’t, without certain consequences—fines, imprisonment, et. al.

Anarchists are all for anarchy until the real anarchists show up with guns, shovels and pitchforks doing anarchist crap, at their expense.

If a feature is patented under US patent law (or any other country’s patent office), then it’s illegal to utilize that feature without permission, which might include a licensing fee, as I mentioned above.

I’m guessing that most companies would love to license their I.P., even to competitors, because it generates revenue for future ideas.

Whether you “care”, or not, is a moot point. And it’s not a ‘moral’ issue, it’s a legal one.

Try copying Gucci, or Fendi handbags, or wallets and selling them at your local flea market.

Chris

24

This is a moral question. I am not an anarchist nor a libertarian. I understand that there are consequences for not following laws. Legal =/= moral. An immoral law is not a law that I feel obligated to follow.

The handbag argument has already been addressed. I would never condone fraud.

25

Buddy, you’re just an anonymous guy on an obscure flashlight board, so I don’t really have much invested in you, or your opinions.

The girlfriend’s out clothes shopping for a Caribbean cruise in two weeks and I’m off of work, surfing the web.

If you view US patent law as being immoral, allowing you to ignore what it stands for and the consequences of violating it, or you feel that companies should be free to rip off features without compensation, for use in their own creations, than by all means patronize those companies, like Ganzo and UltraFire.

No skin off of my back, but when you say you’re not anarchistic, at least in part, you might want to self-reflect.

We don’t get to label laws just/unjust (moral/immoral) for the purpose of violating them scot-free.

Anyhow, I’ve said my peace and so the last word is yours.

Chris

26

Stop lying. I never said anything about justice nor violating laws scot-free. In fact, I said the opposite. I said I am willing to debate this topic, but you are clearly not tall enough for this ride if you are going to resort to lying about what I said.

27

I think we can all agree to disagree on this topic. No one is changing anyone else’s mind today and I think both side of the topic have adequately expressed themselves. Of course you can always go at it in PM! :wink:

28

I think this is more a moral issue rather than legal. We are not lawyers looking to prosecute ganzo, we are just people looking to make the right decision for ourselves. And there is a distinction between legal and moral. We must consider whether laws are moral because to follow all laws without question is extreme and unreasonable.

Regarding IP, I think there are good and bad applications of the law, and one should look at each case individually to determine if one can morally support a company violating the law.

Back to the original topic, I have not handled any ganzo knives, but I have handled some byrds and they are very nice quality.

29

Nice burner account!

Chris

30

Buy what you want, let the BS for the Real Lawyers.
Peace OUT

31

Well then….

A good kershaw, I would recommend try the skyline. Love mine to death

32

I will say I have never liked spyderco. Never liked the designs or price.
I do like the two ganzos I have and many other people that bought them off me also like them a lot. They do not have the best steel in the world, but for the price, I have been impressed with the quality in all the ones I have had go threw my hands. They take on a real sharp edge fast, and hold it well in my use and have never had a problem rolled the edge on any of them

33

Haha I didn’t notice that…what a turd. No wonder he has been banned from other forums. Certainly Blade Forums doesn’t tolerate his nonsense stance on clones he likely got banned real quick.

34

You got me! I have a burner account for BLF. Retard.

35

I didn’t see anyone mention it, so… Benchmade’s patent on the axis lock ran out a year or two ago. They still own the rights to the name “Axis Lock”, but anyone can now legally use the lock design so long as they don’t call it an Axis Lock.

There’s no patent issue here. A case can be made for IP theft, but I don’t know if there is anything that can be done about someone copying a pointy knife shape. Can’t most knives claim influence from another’s idea to some extent? I am vaguely agnostic to this so long as the maker isn’t claiming the knife (whatever) is brand XYZ when in fact it’s brand POS and not made by XYZ.

36

GANZO was utilizing the AXIS lock back in 2016, well before BM’s patent expired on 7/12/16 (12:00:01 am), so there was theft there.

Now, it’s just a question of other seller’s (or Ganzo) using the word ‘AXIS’ to describe the knife in question’s locking mechanism, which would still be a ‘trademark/TM’ violation, which didn’t expire on that date.

Hey, if you all want to support a company engaging in bona fide patent theft, that’s on you.

I think that I’ll look elsewhere, but that’s just me.

Chris

37

Exactly my point.

38

Tagged.

Chris

39

You are not tall enough for this ride. You don’t even understand what is being argued here.

40

I've never seen a production Cryo II G-10...

Only custom, or Cryo G-10.

Is that one new?

My most favorite Kershaw knives are all made in the USA.

Kershaw Leek 1660, Link 1776GRYBW, and Dividend 1812GRY.

I also like a bunch that are made in China.

They're almost as good, and cheaper.

If you want, I can list the Chinese-made ones that I like.