We’ve been (re)equipping folks here as follows:
Fenix TK15
XTAR MP1s charger
XTAR 3100mAh 18650
Generic DX button clasp holster
Sometimes an LD12 as simple backup.
Power density is why Lithium chemistries are preferred in general. 2xCR123 will give you a lot of power per unit volume on a duty belt or firearm.
US armed forces readily supply troops with CR123 primaries, and have been for a very long time. So that has become almost a kind of standard across the industry, at least in the states. The 18650 has never really caught on in that market segment. I am guessing that most don’t want to hassle with charging and managing cells. Which makes sense, when you’ve got IEDs, incoming fire and just basic survival + protecting life as a higher priority its just easier to discard and reload cells every evening at base camp.
Anybody that uses a multiple CR123 primary cell anything deserves the flaming disaster/explosion that will eventually befall them…
You know of any LEO’s that this has happened to? Most use quality CR123’s and I haven’t seen much about it except the fabled Roar of the Pelican thread from several years ago at CPF
I think with standard issue (i.e. not customized) Surefires, etc, the Cr123 is pretty foolproof. I know none of my cop friends worry about it.
With no recharging and only fresh cells going into the tube, the remaining issue is using a manufacturer who has known quality control (e.g. top US products)
This thread talks about exploding lights in law enforcement. They blame it on fake Chinese cells, but it can happen with name brand, top-of-the-line ones: Exploding fake CR123A's
I do know of a guy that just about blew his dick off with one. He had it switched on, put it in his pocket to pick up a box, and blammo! Probably one of the cells was defective. A very common problem is when somebody changes the batteries and gets a used cell mixed up with the new ones. Primary CR123’s can be realy nasty creatures when abused.
Frankly, I don’t use any multi-lithium-cell devices of any kind unless there is a proper battery management/protection circuit that monitors each cell group. If you have to do otherwise, LiFePO4 is a much safer chemistry.
I've never used them. But my son asked me to suggest a flashlight at his new place. Wanted something for emergency/household use, nothing expensive. I don't trust him to do everything I've learned (here) to do to maintain Li-Ion cells, so I've chosen a couple of inexpensive options for him:
CitiPower G7 AA Zoomie - Does fine on primaries, Eneloops or 14500s
Ultrafire WF-501b - 18650 or 2 x CR123A
I was shocked tonight when I went to Walgreens and the CR123's cost almost $14. Apiece!
Energizer 1.5v lithium AA batts are typically about $2.50 each so I look to beat that with 123s. I bought 4 very fresh Surefires at Lowes or HD the other day . . they were about $2 each with 10% discount “(regular price is 2 for $4.50)”:http://www.lowes.com/pd_190642-69074-SF2-CB_0?productId=1054377&Ntt=surefire&pl=1¤tURL=&facetInfo= . Over the last month I’ve seen online sales for $15 to $20 for a pack of 12 Surefires . . so now I’m looking for a similar deal for some more to split with my son.
I’d only buy top line US brands (see reviews on CPF) for a 2* setup and would only put used cells in single cell lights if they still have juice left. My UF G4MCU is pulling 6v@2.2A which is a LOT of watts - not to be ignored.
Energizer Lithium AA’s are cheap at sam’s club. You can get a pack of 12 for $18, it was something like that, where they were only like a buck fitty for each one. My dad pretty much only uses those over regular alkaline aa’s now because they just have so much power in them, and they never leak, and last forever(holding charge).
Thanks! $20 for 12 or ~$1.75 each online . . we have a Sam’s Club card from a friend who is a business member, but we almost never go there. I’ll have to pick up a pack for our AA lights if my son will split some of those, too . . I mostly use NiMHs for AA, but would be good to also have some of these on hand.
My favorite thing about them is that they are still 1.5v unlike rechargeables, which is useful for lights like the Sipiksk68, going from nimh to aa lithium makes a huge difference! Wish I had some to put in things like remotes and mice, because alkalines in those usually only last a year or so.
Have you seen the data sheet for them? Really interesting graphs, like how they hold their voltage and capacity in high drain applications compared to alkalines.
Yeah, I’ve seen it many times. The L91s look to have much better draw max than NiMhs and higher capacity if I’ve read it correctly, since I’ve not tested them. While the long-term cost on the rechargeables is better, it makes sense to keep some of these primaries handy (with adapters for other sizes too).
If I’ve read the tables correctly, the L91 capacity is similar to the best 123s when measuring comparable watts and not just draw.
CR123s with 3v at similar draw is double watts so 123 lights are usually brighter on high and it looks like they can still be throttled back for less lumens and longer run time to match the L91s. At similar cost for a dozen, they still seem like good value (as primaries go).
I have to say… I have a UF WF-501a running a generic 4.7v max 5-mode XML T6 that came with my 502b. Very poor performance from a single (cheap bulk buy Panasonic from amazon) cr123a 3v, which I imagine can be expected. Today I received my first set of 16340 Li-ions (MF supplied TF Flame 880mAh), and it turned that above mentioned setup into a freaking POWERHOUSE pocket rocket, almost as bright as my SolarForce L2T custom assembly with a MF UF 3-mode XML with a TF Flame 18650, and I imagine it will be JUST as bright once I get the next MF UF 3-mode in the mail and stuff it in the 501a.
Incidentally, I also ordered a SF L2m battery tube and an extra HAIII head (already have an extra tailcap - dig the forward clikie/momentary-on option), because I’m so excited about the single cr123a sized torch option.
BetweenRides mentioned they recommended to their son an UF WF-501B, suggesting it can run on two primary CR123as. For primaries that would be pushing a good 6v on a couple of fully charged cells, which is well over max for most the drop-ins included with your average 501B. I have a UF Q5 (whatever the LED might be) that is single mode and runs a higher voltage range than can handle the 6v, but still not as bright as a single 18650.
I would love to have at least one light that performs as impressively on CR123as, but I think I’d have to get a high-range, low-voltage drop-in for that. Any recommendations? E1320 once recommended one of the SolarForce low voltage XM-L (I think) drop-ins for this reason, also suggesting full brightness potential at lower voltages. Thoughts?
I am a little leary of >single cell combinations since I’m still pretty much a noob, but ran a couple Streamlight CR123as in a Streamlight TRL-1 for a long time and it was awesome. Other than that, I had some Smith&Wesson Xenon tactical torch that had ran x2 CR123a and it was fine - but is sure dull and obsolete now that I’ve discovered this place.
Anyway… I assume all these military and police outlets for CR123as issue torches that run 6v+ min. But the drop-ins in those torches are obviously regulated for a higher voltage, but almost always seem to perform less impressively than some of these new XM-L drop ins on 4.7 volts. Can someone enlighten me on this a bit? Is it all about regulation? A friend has a Surefire scout on his M-4, and we both thought that thing was bright until I started getting into the Chinese lights and set-ups. LOL. But I have no idea what that thing is running in it’s innards, aside from requiring X2 CR123 batteries (6v).
I agree that in a SHTF situation, rechargeables may become pointless very quickly, and primaries will be more available. What would be the best (performing/run-time) drop-in option for single or double CR123s config?
GottaZoom, thanks for the tip. I'll check out Lowes and HD today or tomorrow. I don't want to buy a whole bunch of them because I'm not sure how the 501B is going to perform yet. The drop-in came in a gifted FrankenL2M running off a single IMR 18350. I've used the new light with an 18650 in it and the drop-in works great, so I'll be interested in how it works with 2 CR123's. I will only buy known name brands, not interested in the cheapest online.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but again - if a drop-in runs well and properly at 4.7v-max via a 18650, isn’t it likely that x2 3v CR123 primaries = 6v will kill the circuitry and emitter unless it’s a high range drop in? Or has this already been considered in this thread?
Yes, it will kill the drop-in.
Regarding CR123A, too much credit is given (at least on CPF) to the supposed 10 year shelf-life. A number of people have discovered that unused CR123A cells, even from Surefire, my be dead (or ‘sleeping’ that can somewhat be recovered but still with capacity loss). I would rather depend on 18650s or Eneloops that are maintained (and thus tested) from time to time.
Yes, that is correct. DX has a high range ramping drop-in that E1320 pointed out for me. I’m running it on 2 14500s in a minimag. I believe SolarForce has some but not sure of reliability since I haven’t bought anything except low voltage from them.
In the UF G4 MCU group buy a few people said their light didn’t run with 2*123 but mine is doing it with 3v SureFire primaries and a very impressive draw for an XRE (it is probably my best thrower . . even farther than an XML aspheric though I still need to run them head to head). The pill from that might fit in C8 lights but probably not P60s. 12 to 14 watts gets pretty warm.
Good points! Problem is car lights have gone for months or years without being used/tested. Heat will pull a battery down much faster according to mfgr tables.
To me the best way around is a combination of things . . such as:
- lights that will take more than 1 form of battery (e.g., 2*123 and 18650)
- spare batts rotated in at a different time than the light’s fresh batteries
- EDC and backup lights/batteries I keep in a day bag with other necessities and emergency gear
- a good charging system for draw from the vehicle (and solar also if possible for preppers).
I rotate stored water based on an electronic calendar entry on my phone, so that might be another layer of protection for testing both primaries and rechargeables that are left sitting (especially in a hot car).
If the drop-in is not marked and questionable as to input voltage, I wouldn’t even try running higher than 4.2v in it. It could survive the trial, but then again it might not.
Well thanks to JaffoAZ, mfm and you for pointing this out to me. The WF-501b came with a very cheap drop-in xenon bulb. With my total lack of experience with CR123 (and most things electronic it seems), I assumed I could substitute another drop-in without issue. Now I know I could fry it and I understand what you are saying. The 18350/18650 drop-in has no special markings to indicate it can take a higher voltage, so I'll check with the donor and see if he knows. Otherwise, my son is getting the original light with the bulb. Even with the xenon bulb, it's fairly bright and useful, but it's funny that the batteries will cost more than the flashlight ($3.99 shipped from ebay).