LarcKen, did you took a peek at EasyB's #10 message?
Well, as I said I did a quick test on this
with an SK68's plano-convex lens sitting just above the led's retaining ring, and it resulted in an amazing output improvement. Of course the distortion (spherical aberration) increases, yet I find this preferable here as it makes the die beam less square.
Cheers ^:)
I think the greatest shame with the Lensers is they’re not regulated and whilst they’re brilliant for the 1st few minutes with a fresh set of batteries … “The Shine” very quickly disappears and the Step down on some of their models is a complete joke.
There’s a runtime graph here for the P5R which shows exactly how bad some of them are …… 7.5 minutes in and you’re down to 40% and just a smidge over ½ hr and you’re down to 10%
http://www.led-resource.com/2011/09/led-lenser-p5r-review/
@Barkuti
Nice info, and yeah i think the P7 also uses a pre-collimator lens on the emitter. But for the zoom lens, i don’t think it’s a plano convex.
As i said it very closely resembles a TIR lens with recessed shape and bulging on the center.
@Witterings
It’d be wise not to generalize a product based on one and outdated review. And i’m pretty sure the P7 don’t have the same runtime problem.
But to confirm this, i’ve did a short test. I ran it on high for 40 minutes now, and didn’t notice any decrease in brightness.
Don’t forget much of their lineup now are the upgraded version with .2 number on it (P7.2, P5.2, T7.2, etc), So probably even more efficiency.
I have no proof, but I suspect they are or were built in the same factory, or some other commercial relationship. They are just too similar in many areas for copies.
The only bummer is, most of the POP lites are old tech. I love my T33 and T34, but they are XP-E. And my T62 is an XR-E.
Unless things have changed in the last 6 months, they just haven’t kept up with the times.
Indeed you are correct, it does depend what you are using it for. If say you are using it in a built up area, or where other people are, then a big spill beam can be very intrusive. A focused zoomy is far more precise. And at range normally light up more than a sufficient area unless you are using a very small LED with a small projection. But then you are probably only doing that for fun rather than anything serious.
Personally I don’t think this is such an issue. I know we all love numbers and the highest output is cool. But as a rule it’s not always that usable. Low runtimes and massive heat no matter the host. The reality is, at moderate levels you’ll get good performance and the heat won’t be an issue for many hosts.
1) The inefficient transfer of light produced by the LED to light exiting the aspherical is poor. It’s my biggest issues with zoomies. the lower effective efficiency of the whole system.
2) I haven’t found a pencil thin beam useful in practice. ( YES, it may be FUN 
)
3) The qualities of lights I’ve come across (that I can afford,) are really poor and zoomies are generally heavier than their reflectored counterparts.
4) In my mind, the beam pattern isn’t practical. There is a ‘hotspot’ but no spill (and spill is necessary) and in the flood position, contrast is minimal so it’s hard to make out details.
I think this is a general misunderstanding of ‘regulation’.
Now it is true, many Led Lensers are not regulated. So they have a somewhat direct drive discharge curve. Although many of the lights will have amp limiting settings as part of the switch. As this is how they get their different outputs. This means that on high, it is still being throttled, unlike some of the Li-ion lights from other makers which essentially are only limited by the battery amp draw.
Personally, non regulated output is actually quite useful. It will give you the highest maximum runtime and the dimming will be gradual. You can also alter the discharge profile by using different chemistry batteries. NiMh or Lithium primaries will give a much flatter curve than alkaline batteries do.
This means it can offer a lot of useful light for a good amount of time.
Often such lights use 3 or 4 AAA’s in Series, because they give a useful voltage. i.e. the voltage the LED requires to operate at. So no boosting or bucking of the voltage is required. But AAA’s only have small capacity, so you can’t expect Mag D-cell runtimes.
As for regulation. Well there are many types. A few years back a flat or constant output regulation was very desirable, although somewhat out of fashion at the moment.
This kind of regulation will have a preset output or amp draw. Which the driver will maintain while the battery is able to supply the required voltage. There are many different types of driver to achieve this with an array of different battery and voltage inputs.
The downside here is. You won’t get the highest output, because a batteries voltage is always decreasing, so it is impossible to flat regulate the highest possible output with a decreasing power source. High output lights will also often fall out of regulation quite early on, simply because the battery cannot sustain the output.
Other downsides include when it does fall out of regulation, the light may turn off completely or dim massively. This means it might seem like it’s working fine, then 90 seconds later leave you in the dark. A non regulated output will be obvious when the batteries are dimming, but it’ll likely keep producing light much longer.
Over the last few years, to give ‘headline’ maximum possible outputs. Many torch makers program their regulation to give a high output for ‘x’ seconds or minutes. And then step down, either one big step, or as a gradual dimming to lower level. This often means the headline output is misleading and not realistic. And you can have a noticeable step, as the light dims down to a lower level.
Some combine this with burst of direct drive output for really the highest output. While others tailor the discharge curve to maximise runtime.
Led Lenser and Maglite both offer regulated lights. But their regulation is not normally a flat regulation. Their regulation is to maximise initial output, then gradually dim the light (as gradually dimming is usually less noticeable than a sudden step down). But to try and offer the best total runtime possible.
To give some examples, this is a Maglite XL200, it has flat regulation, that drops to increase runtime (and on some other torches, is used to manage heat too). The drop is gradual, so chances are, you may not even notice it. It will then continue flat regulation at a lower output, giving you much better runtimes than just flat regulation on High. Now if you want to maintain high, you can just cycle the light and it’ll go back to the beginning of it’s regulation.
This is a regulated Led Lenser. It has two different regulation modes. Note how it’s high output initially. This means in burst or short mode use, you’ll always get the highest output. It also allows them to gain the ANSI FL1 output rating. But the lights actually have a good total runtime, because they then drop down to a lower level. Chances are, flat regulation at the initial current would produce too much heat to leave it on for a long period of time. So if your light didn’t auto step down, you’d have to manually do it, as it’d get too hot to hold (2.8amp Convoy S series lights for example). And high output will require good batteries to maintain it.
This is a modern Thrunite light. Note how the highest Turbo output, is neither regulated while on Turbo, it’s always dropping. And only lasts a short while before a massive step down. It’s not really doing much different to the blue line on the Led Lenser chart above.
Something like the impressive Olight SR52 doesn’t really do flat regulation, it’s very much a gradual decline in output.
You are missing the point. You are only thinking of using a torch outside, probably for walking or looking about. But there are other uses.
If you are using one to see while working on the inside of a computer, RC planes/cars, in an engine bay or under a car. Then an even illumination of light is far more useful than a hotspot that is too bright, and a spill beam that is too dim.
I don’t have ideal pictures to illustrate this, but I use zoomys a lot for this purpose, even if I don’t have photos.
But here are some examples.
This is what a reflector light looks like.
Note that the hotspot glares and hides much detail. And as you move out from it, you get a big contrast in light and it only gets worse as it continues to dim.
The same shot with an aspheric lens. And everything is clearly illuminated.
Now imagine you are working on something like this:
This is actually being illuminated with my Fenix HP05 headlamp, a reflector lamp. As a static image it lights up the subject quite well. In practice the hot spot is narrow and obviously moves as you move your head. This means it is hard to keep what you want illuminated. The spill beam is so much dimmer than the hotspot, that your eyes cannot cope with the differing light outputs when working on something.
A wide angle aspheric or TIR would produce a large even illumination, bigger than the subject matter. This means, as you move your head, the light hitting the target would not change and it would all be illuminated evenly. Much much nicer.
You can see this clearly when used for reading, reflector based lights will often cause central glare, then be too dim.
For close up work, a zoomy in flood mode is much much better.
Nice that you are totally ignoring the XL range, the MagTac range. And the fact that all their offerings for years have been capable.
Also outside a zoomie can be very usefull
When I check the terrain on some areas there are trees.
Using a zoomie I can see through them, past them all without spill on trees nearby make me see less behind them.
I’ve recently had a P5R.2 and it was so bad I sent it back … I also have a TT which again is brilliant when you 1st turn it on but again it doesn’t last that long bearing in mind it’s meant to be 4 hrs, I also have the T7.2 which I have noticed it with but I haven’t tested to quite the same degree and that was the only reason I didn’t quote that as it’s “suspected” rather than proven.
I had an M1 a while back and it switched on when it felt like it (which was less than when it didn’t feel like it) and I couldn’t understand why it was unbelievably bright for a few minutes before massively dropping off ……. I’ve subsequently found in forums it only runs at full power for a few minutes and then drops off as apparently it’ll overheat if it doesn’t.
I chose the example of the P5R as it absolutely mirrored the experience I had with the P5R.2 which as I say was so poor I felt it wasn’t fit for purpose and sent it back for a refund.
It’s a real shame because the P5R.2 could of been a really good torch, if instead of a nominal time at 270 lumens and then dropping off to nearly useless to obtain a longer claimed run time for marketing purposes they’d gone for a solid and consistent 200 / 220 lumens even if only for 1 1/2 hrs and maybe with the low (or a new mid setting) at say 70 (or thereabouts) and the user could decide if he needs the full output (which is often the reason you buy a torch based on it’s output) knowing it decreases the run time of or a very usable lower level but to drop off to like 10% after little more than 1/2 hr is a joke … in my opinion anyway.
wow why is this post so popular? 
I need my popcorn .
Camping with the family now, we’re on a nice camp site in the dunes of Schiermonnikoog. When walking to the toilet building at night I adjust the spot of my zoomie EDC to illuminate just the path without shedding any light on the tents with sleeping people right next to the path.
Plus I can mimic the lighthouse sweeping its beam over the camp site
Wow, that’s bad. But i still don’t believe the P5 is that bad.
Need a second opinion, with different batteries maybe?
As i checked the technical specs on their website, turns out they don’t support 14500.
I’m pretty sure that’s the culprit. Other AA with 1.5v should have no problem with the runtime.
The output is 140 lumens on high.
https://www.ledlenser.com/uk/flashlights/p52/
I wonder if you are wanting what maybe is impossible.
You will not get loooong runtimes at High output with a small battery. No matter who makes the torch.
14500’s have circa 700mAh and will not sustain high amp draws for very long.
I also wonder if you are maybe not understanding how runtimes are calculated.
If a manufacture conforms to the ANSI FK1 standard, then runtime is calculated when output reaches 10% of the initial output.
Some makers will quote different runtimes, I think Led Lenser used to, but they also used to explain to what output level it was recorded too (it was on their website).
Take a look at the Olight S15R. On High it makes slightly more output than the P5.2R but according to the plot it only last 16 mins until it drops to 50%.
Led Lenser just too a different approach.
The P5 and P5.2 are AA only and will normally burn up and not work with Li-ion.
The P5R and P5.2R are the rechargeable versions, that do use 14500’s. Output is much higher than the P5/5.2
But 700mAh is not going to give 4 hours of high output light, no matter who makes it.
Whoops, thanks for the correction
To the O.P.
No idea why you thought Zoomies are not popular here at BLF.
Some of our most vicious discussions/arguments have been with the Cometa, which is ……….ta da….A Zoomie!
And before that is was a much more pleasant discussion of the Zuesray. Which in it’s earliest form was one of the best budget zoomers to come in a long time, but then they got all China on it and pretty much ruined the consistency of quality.
In between those 2 you had the Brynite B158, UniqueFire UF-T20, UniqueFire UF-1504, Ultrafire (and clones of )SK68, SK98 and a host of others.
Zoomies are fine, reflectors are fine, Maglites and everyone else, it’s all good.
Yup, if you ’oogle ZeusRay Dealmetic you’ll find a lot of threads, here and elsewhere.
See this thread:
trying to consolidate all ZeusRay posts
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/34292
It deserves to be written up by some journalist as an exquisite example of how it’s always possible to make something cheaper and worse, even when you think they’ve already cut every possible corner.
And ya know, for $7.99, it’s still worth getting.
For the love of God, I pulled the trigger on one of those some months ago for a friend, yet I cancelled that and happily ended up with a newer Ultrafire SK98 XM-L2 model (which came with a genuine emitter). Price was about a buck higher then, ROFL!
Cheers ^:)
Ultrafire SK98 come with a solid pill?
I always replace the emitter and driver.
I have the Fenix FD40 with XP-L HI and while it was not a favorite of some I find it quite good.
The flood is excellent and the the ability to shift to a more throw light is quite good. The compact size as well as its ability to use a 26650 battery makes this one of my favorite flashlights. I am surprised others have not received this light in the same way I have.