Less vigorous engineering, little to no testing, cheap labor, low quality, subsidized shipping, little to no customer support.
Lack of light output specification is an example of most of that. Even Spark and Zebralight showed that they’re not far off at times. Zebralight couldn’t or wouldn’t say what batteries fit. Spark didn’t know the output of some of their lights.
H)
I purchase the best product, period!
China lights and Asian vehicles.
To speak like a young person, “Those two
afore mentioned items Suck Big Time!) not with
my d-m money! :money_mouth_face:
You have to think in terms of expectation …
Got to accept that for a long time there was little competition , so everyone got lots of gravy [ profit margins ] , and it was not uncommon to expect @ 500% margin in the good old days . Just look at Aero Space Industries , they used to live off up to 1000% profit margins …
Its hard to let go of old expectations ! , companies all over the world cried poor when there profit margins dropped bellow 500% , I remember one company shut its doors because there margins dropped below 200% , apparently it was not enough of a margin to keep the business viable in the USA [ Yes - they moved to China ]
This is where the Chinese differ , there happy with a margin , be it 10% or maybe lower , and with smaller margins - tighter budgets - comes lower quality ! BUTT
As far as quality goes , the Chines are learning . They are making much better lights now than say 3 years ago . [ Just wish they would let go Strobe as a mode , strobe is not a mode - it just annoying ]
If you compare a sub $20 light today , against a sub $20 light made 3 years ago , your getting a lot more for your money today . Sure , the odd lemon still gets through - but thats true for all products . Its amazing what you can buy for a 20 these days !
Western companies dont like small margins , these days , if they cant make 100% , its simply not viable .
If you cost materials - components - labour - and ass-costs , it should be possible to at cost make a $10 flashlight in say the USA [ never mind start up costs ]
With a 50% margin it would sell to distributor @ $15 + Tax [ if any ] and hit the retail shelves @ maybe $35 - $45 after everyone takes a slice … [ Maglite XL-100 comes to mind ]
So where the Chinese are ?? Wiser / Smarter / less greedy ? , is they want to do business as long as there is a margin [ profit ] , how large the margin is less critical , as long as they keep there factories busy , and busy factories make money .
And the internet has made isolation more difficult , we now know what is going on across the horizon , it is now a global economy , buyers are more in tune with global prices , and just how much local prices are marked up . And why would you want to pay a 500 or 1000 percent premium ? This is a problem , local traders [ here in Oz ] buy exactly the same product under there own label and mark it up a good 500% for consumers . Sorry , I dont want to pay for this guys new fishing boat , or his new Ferrari , he can kiss my ass .
I’ll buy from a source thats far less greedy ! Greed is not good , and I will vote with my money .
And enough Australians are buying from over seas to worry local rip off merchants into action demanding higher import taxes or taxes on untaxed products .
Just because they want to deliver the same product at a much inflated price .
Rant over !
+1
Because you heard it from someone with a tinfoil hat on youtube? Hah.
If the government gave everyone free shipping, why are many Chinese companies close to Hong Kong driving all their packages over to Hong Kong and ship them from there? (And no, the Hong Kong Post is not suddenly involved in a massive conspiracy).
The US is not only manipulating their currency but also abusing the reserve currency status of the US dollar. By printing trillions of dollars they cause massive inflation in all countries where the currency is pegged in some form to the US dollar (and they can ship all those dollars out of the US because everyone “needs” dollars).
The ECB isn’t much better either and do many bad things the Bundesbank would never have done.
BTW, did people above me in this thread really think that the only thing that differs between a FandyFire and a Fenix is the logo?? Really?
+ 1
Zebralight is a very good example. Made in China, assembled in China, cheap packaging, no accessory kit or third-party accessories. The other day on BFL they were sold for 45$ (instead of 64$ or 69$), by High Mountain Outfitters (HMO) on amazon; that was obviously a clearance sale by HMO who, in such an instance, isnt bound to the ZL's sales policy dictation any longer. If there is a clearance sale, it means that you break the relationship/contract/collaboration with the distributor (here: the manufacturer *is* the distributor) and you can sell the merchandise at a price you want to sell them for. So HMO determined that 45$ is low enough to stir interest resulting in a quick clearance and that 45$ is high enough to still make some acceptable profit. Clearly, at 45$, there is still a retailer's margin left. Obviously.
And you know what? As outlined in my Quark review, that's exactly the same price which 4Sevens sanctioned for their old-branded Quark series, and some dealers would even sell them for 41$ (instead of 78$ lmao). Dealers who sell 4Sevens and ZL for ~40.00$ still gain a comfortable net profit, percentagewise. It is safe to assume that the dealers' cost price of the lights is 32.xx$ or a bit less than that. Just imagine!! HMO still earns 13 bucks by selling off ZL's on a clearance sale, and 4Sevens authorized dealers earn (78-32=) 46 bucks by selling a Quark X AA² at dictated price. How crazy is that??
Btw, did someone say Ferrari? Check the official 4sevens youtube channel. Earlier this year there were hundreds of David's private videos from the professional car racing track where he was racing a professional-like racing car with indoor and outdoor video cams. Hundreds of such (boring) videos. Now the videos are gone. Later this year he must have removed those videos for some good reason. Maybe they didnt reflect too well on his profit earnings or on the 4sevens company. 4sevens is a flashlight company after all and should not have anything to do with professional racing cars or the support for such expensive luxurious hobbies, should it?
There was also a proud 4Sevens car racing announcement thread on CPFMP but even that thread is deleted, i cant find it anymore. At least we got some documentation on the WWW from elsewhere:
Anyway, whoever is reading this post and thinks that i am thinking that ZL and 47 lights are equally overpriced, please dont get me wrong. I am thinking too that the Quarks are one of the best most practical designed torches of their kind. I am talking of intelligent construction (lego-ability) and industry-leading driver efficiency (with buck-boost, full support for Li-Ion's, etc.). On Eneloops, only ZL is more efficient.
Everyone here’s been opining for the Ultrafire companies to make premium quality lights and for there to be enough competition for the prices to still be budget. They’re getting there slowly. For example, I really expect the intl-outdoor and cqg in house lights in the 30-40 range to have more sophisticated drivers than stacking 7135’s within a year or so.
yes and no. Paying overpriced prices could be regarded as supporting the res & dev undertaken by the US flashlight company, but it could also be regarded as funding the retail shop owner's Ferrari. The chain of thought starts with with whom you leave your hard earned money:
if you pay 78$ for a Quark X AA² Tactical from a retailer, the cuts are:
46$ for goinggear Marshall
32$ for 4sevens Co., minus the manufacturing cost (~15$ for a Quark).
result: you are supporting the company (research & development, staff, etc.) with 17$, because that's the gross profit after sale to the dealer
-------
if you pay 78$ for a Quark X AA² Tactical from 4sevens website, the cuts are:
78$ for 4sevens David (minus shipping costs), minus the manufacturing cost (~15$ for a Quark).
result: you are supporting the company (research & development, staff, etc.) with ~55$, because that's the gross profit after sale to the end customer.
I agree on this.
Ultrafire already has the occasional product that seems almost on par with Zebralight and the others such as the UF-T50. Of course it’s $40 but it’s nice to have some choices over the standard fare.
It will be interesting to see what comes out of these companies during the next few years.
Does the T50 have full regulation and basically zero parasitic draw?
I don’t know. It always comes on and I don’t use it (or any light) all that often so the parasitic draw can’t be much of an issue.
I also don’t know whether it’s regulated and/or to what degree. It’s bright 
and I’m usually more interested in turning it down.
The fit, finish, and color are all similar to Zebralight, strobe is hidden.
All of the above has some merit. While I own many lights made ‘someplace else’, I only EDC lights made in the U.S. Some stock and some custom lights. If it’s good enough for the Military and extensively tested for Military combat and weapons use, it’s good enough for me. Chinese lights are inexpensive for many reasons. We all know what those reasons are.
I have yet to see a chinese light with a boost driver which costs extra, theres no warranty (which is built into the name brand’s price)
and the engineering can be rudimentary compared to the testing and expertise put into a name brand flashlight (can be lots of small things that can add up), the cost of which is also indirectly built into the price. Mind you for a flashlight we can upgrade it easily and avoid overtly bad designs, but for something more complex like a car, you can’t modify much of it without spending more money then the quality version would have cost.
Name brand flashlights are priced at what the market will bear, at the low end of the market theres more competition since almost anyone with mechanical skill and some equipment can design a light, but he/she won’t have access to the designs and building experience the big names have learned from years of making different models. In the future hopefully there is more competition at the upper price points.
That’s why I’ll only buy a Japanese rather than U.S. car
What can I say about Americans that hate America and believe (falsely) that we don’t make anything of value here? Nothing I can say in polite company. Where’s a lightning bolt when you need one? 
But you do admit that there are products that other countries can do better? :)
Instead of blaming american consumers for going with a better product, people should blame the americans making the inferior one.
You forgot to add “overpriced”
I told myself to stay out of this, not going to.
I have a couple of those American made for the military name brand lights
Other than brand recognition and being a “status ” symbol
(look at me , my flashlight cost $200 )
They have nothing
Deciding that someone “hates America” for not rewarding inferior products is rather limited thinking to say the least.
There is nothing patriotic about buying an inferior product. That’s idiotic rather than patriotic. We’re all Americans (in the U.S.) even the ones that don’t agree with each other.
“Buy American” is just the slogan of the union which is waiving the patriotic banner simply because it’s in their self interest. It might as well be “be patriotic put your money in my pocket”.
