Wurkkos TS21 with Nichia 219c 5000k - perfect "daylight neutral tint"? Impression & comparison w/ other high CRI LED's

Beam shots of the 3 lights. On my two laptops neither of the Nichia has a green tint, but when I use the computer at work, the Nichia 219c has a very slightly greenish corona. This is an example of how evaluation of colors are tricky - the computer monitor if uncalibrated changes what we see.

I tend to prefer pictures of actual objects, a room for example, more than white-wall beam shots because pictures of these familiar objects that I see daily seem to tell me more about the color tone of each LED. Still, beam shots provide useful information, so here they are, taken with camera’s WB fixed at 5000k. To my eyes, the magenta signature of the 2 Nichia’s are fairly obvious (below BBL) while Luminus SST-20 has primarily yellow tint, and I go back and forth whether it has a green tint. If it’s there it’s exceedingly slight IMHO.

I also think the magenta tint is brightness dependent. It is more prominent when the light is dim, such as at peripheral spill, and less so when it’s bright, such as at the hot spot in the middle of the beam.

Data from Maukka (using Reylight with smooth reflector)

The 219C is a bit greenish. I got a… damn, wotnahell’s that SS tube AAA light? BLF348 or something? That’s got a 219C. It’s nice, got high CRI, but even I noticed that it’s a bit above the BBL.

That ain’t bad at all, as it “matches” daylight (which is a bit greenish and above the BBL), just like one of my fave combinations, a 4C Cree behind a TIR lens. Especially in daytime, it’s like warm sunlight.

But there’s greenish, and then there’s greeeeeeen.

Anyone who has an old Quark knows what I’m talking about. A sickly green hue that’s bad enough on high brightness, but is downright hideous at lower brightness.

I got other lights sporadically that had hideously green beams, but Quarks were/are rather infamous for it.

The 219C gets a bad rep for being green because the 4000K version were commonly a nasty green tint .

OTOH ...the 5000K nichia 219C came in a 83Cri that had a very nice tint . this is one of those cases where people are fooled as to whether it's cri or tint that they like or dislike .

Wurkkos’s Aliexpress web site here states TS21’s 219c has 90 CRI. Is that a typo/mistake?

The fickle/subjective nature of light perception makes this hobby so interesting. I had thought SST20 4000k in my beloved IF25a has perfect color and didn’t understand why someone was complaining about a green tint. Now next to the magenta leaning Nichia’s, it does look greenish in actual use (vs white wall hunting) and it’s starting to bother me. :person_facepalming:

OTOH Nichia 519c 5000k in actual use, is not so yellow-greenish like SST20, and not so magenta like the famous Nichia 219b sw45k. Is it the perfect middle ground? Subjectively around the house it seems to my eyes to be VERY close to what things look like in daylight. I like it A LOT more than I thought I would. At the present sale price of $36 including good 21700 battery AND on-body USB-C charging, it seems like a no brainer recommendation.

Since I dared using that phrase neutral-daylight tint in topic of thread and risked opening a can of worms, I should quote this thread [Review] SST-20 in FW3A is divine! , which has a good discussion on the topic.

It’s a very interesting discussion and includes comments by THE toy keeper :wink: and others on “untinted/neutral white light” (above the BBL at 5000k) versus people’s preference for negative DUV (under the BBL, like the magenta tint of 219b sw45k).

White-wall beam-shots are informative, but wrt color rendition of LED I seem to learn more from pictures of objects I am familiar with. Following are pics of my living room. Which LED most accurately reflects that the far wall is light beige and the ceiling white? And for me, which LED most accurately depicts how the room looks during daylight? It’s the Wurkkos’s Nichia 219c.

All pics taken with camera’s white balance fixed at 5000k.

Some observations: Wurkkos with only 3 LED’s is not as bright as Sofirn or Emisar; no big deal and I overcome this by setting it to one-click-to-Turbo. If you do this then it’s even more crucial to reset max thermal limit to 55 or so (ie 25 clicks). Wurkkos is best at reproduction of the neutral daylight look IMHO.

I still love Sofirn SST20 4000k’s warm yellow tone, in some way prefer it to Nichia 219b’s famous magenta/rosy tint. I go back and forth about the green tint and its significance all the time :innocent: . It’s there especially when I COMPARE beams versus the magenta Nichia’s on white wall, and I imagine it’s there when DUV is measured, but by itself in real life it’s harder to notice. Where SST20 wins over the magenta Nichia’s is the warm yellow tone seems to show depth of objects far away better (ie higher CCT light flattens depth), and as a flashlight the Sofirn IF25a is better than both Wurkkos TS21 and the Emisar because it is more balanced: it has both flood, and a reasonable throw. It’s a home-run of a flashlight and a must-have for its warm CCT tone IMHO.

It seems to me the Emisar’s 219b’s magenta/rosy tone is more prominent when it is dim, such as at the spill of the beam, and less when it’s bright, such as at the hot spot. This brightness-dependent tint change (I’m not the first to report this tint change; someone a lot more experienced lol has made similar observation IIRC.) could be seen when you watch while dimming a Nichia light from high to low. Nichia 219b very nicely depicts color details of plants & flowers, etc. up close. Whereas SST20 4000k covers everything with a yellow tone, Nichia 219b 4500k distinguishes colors better: light green vs dark green of the leaves, light gray vs dark grey vs brown of the barks. I too love this legendary LED and totally understand the obsession (grin). It’s a must have, more so than any other light in my modest collection.

Basically, I love all 3 lights and all 3 LEDS for the different things they excel in and recommend all 3 highly. IOW sorry, you should buy all 3 :innocent: .

I don’t know if the pictures above support my opinions, but I’ll give it a try. (Camera’s white balance set at 5000k for all the shots.)

Sofirn IF25a with SST20 4000k: Yes it does have a yellow and maybe slightly greenish tint, but more so when comparing beams, and less so by itself. I keep thinking photography exaggerates the yellow tone vs real life perception with my eyes. How much of the tone is due to lower CCT and how much is due to the tint of Luminus LED? It would be fascinating to compare this LED with my Emisar D4V2 with Nichia 219b 3500k.

Wurkkos TS21 with Nichia 219c 5000k: Interesting that it does seem to be right in between the other 2 LED’s, ie it looks wonderfully “neutral” albeit on the cool side. Not too yellowish, not too magenta/rosy’ish. I am curious what measured Ra, R9, DUV etc. are (does anyone know, please post) (EDIT 7/2022: Ra 94, R9 81 per maukka - see post above.). This is a fantastic flashlight and at the give away price, a no brainer recommendation IMHO.

Emisar D4V2 with Nichia 219b 4500k: The magenta tint makes red brick more red for example. Magenta tint or not, details and colors are fantastic in both photography and real life. Well deserved of its status as one of the most famous and highly regarded LED’s ever made. Looking at this LED and reading posts about it in this forum and reddit has been a great and incredibly fun learning experience for me. IOW buy it before they run out of stock :innocent: .

Great comparison shots. I’m much in agreement with your grading (if you will) of these emitters. To my eye, the 219C is superior for rendering outdoor scenes, and looks pretty darn good inside as well. Seems to be a fantastic all around workaday emitter choice. I have a (few) Lumintop IYP07 with 219C(T) emitters. They label it “NW” and 93 CRI. I’m guessing color is closer to 4500K in that light, but I really like it. I use it to illuminate my outdoor grill surface while I cook because it gives such a natural tone to the meat.

I was hoping the 5000K 219C would have been an option in the new Convoy T4. I know everybody is lovin’ on the 519A, but I’m not on that train yet. I compromised with 5000K LH351D, which seems to be a lot better with Simon’s new ‘green’ AR coated lens.

this post by maukka has measurements for the 5000k 219c as well as the 4500k 219b.

fwiw, your garden photos do not contain much Red, which could be used to show the effect of R9 CRI (except the beak of the bird):

also, I respect that you are seeking to show that the 219c is closest to sunlight… it is, because the Tint of sunlight is above the incandescent BBL:

here you can see the jog in the BBL, at 5000k it steps up to DUV 0.0032 (in the pic above that is show as the D50 reference)… you can see the 219c is very similar in CCT and DUV, to the D50 reference.
(ignore the arrow and duv value from another post)
here you can also see the jog in the BBL:

I agree the sst-20 4000k has the most yellow Tint, it is also Warmer CCT… which brings me to my next point, about comparing LEDs to daylight. That is fine, for LEDs above 5000k, used during the day, when the brain is white balanced to sunlight.

otoh, at night, when the brain is adapted to incandescent, 5000k, even 4500k, looks more cool Blue than necessary…

imo, for LEDs used during the day, it makes sense to compare to daylight… otoh, for LEDs used at night, I do not choose CCT above 4000k… I prefer 3000k or 3500k…

point being, when my brain is adapted to nightime lighting, it is using a different CCT (3000k), and a different DUV reference (0.0000), than sunlight (5000k and duv 0.0032)… at night my brain is using Incandescent as a reference (not sunlight), because thats what my house lights are…

When using lights for outdoor night time activities I enjoy a neutral ~5000K light. In this case I’m not really adapted to incandescent light and I think that 5000K is best at providing contrast outdoors for me.

Where can one get these 219c emitters by themselves?

Thanks Jon you’re a great source of info. That’s what I was looking for & thanks for the explanation. A couple of questions please:

1. How do I know how close the Wurkkos LED is to that 219C sm503?
2. Do flashlight companies typically use LED’s with 3 step MacAdam ellipse sorting, AND does that mean the LED will be close to sm503 in this case?

> how close

each led can vary within a range, you would need to measure with some sort of instrument. It is not uncommon for an LED with a nominal CCT of 5000k, to test between 4800k to 5200k (thats an 8% range). Tint DUV also varies, slightly visibly in side by side comparisons.

our brain is really good at comparing two different LEDs… but when there is only a single source, the brain makes it white… I like to use a Red Target for comparing LEDs ability to make Red POP (Red Color Rendering)… this is a separate test, for R9 CRI, different from our Tint and CCT perceptions when making side by side comparisons on white targets.

> typically


maukkas numbers are informing, and though not necessarily identical, unless you find a way to measure, its the only reference you have… and imo valid

close enough, and Much better than nothing

For anyone new to this, like me :innocent: , this article R9: More Important Than CRI?. Some new lighting standards call for… | by Greg Yeutter | Medium discusses some of what Jon is talking about WRT to Ra (based on the 8 pastel colors, the “CRI” that you typically see) versus R9 (deep red, or strong red - why is it important?), which is often not quoted by flashlight companies. I was really surprised to find out the CRI most frequently used is actually based on pastel colors.

The rating of Nichia 219b 4500k for example is R9080, meaning Ra/”CRI” is at least 90, and R9 is at least 80 (it produces red very well - among the best there is). R9080 is the highest rating, partly why that 219b LED has so many obsessed fans - kidding.

So far I’ve compared Wurkkos Nichia 219c 5000k to other LED’s at different CCT’s (Nichia 219b is 4500k while SST20 is 4000k). Next would be a famous LED with same CCT, Samsung LH351D 5000k CRI 90, found in my Sofirn D25L headlamp.

Below are beam shots of Samsung LH351D 5000k CRI 90 in Sofirn headlamp, Nichia 219c 5000k in Wurkkos, and Nichia 219b 4500k in Emisar. No label because if you’ve read this thread, you should already be able to guess which is which :slight_smile: . Samsung is above BBL line (yellow greenish), one Nichia is close to BBL line (slightly above), and the other Nichia is below BBL (magenta).

I was taken aback by how two 5000k LED’s could look so different from each other (beam colors depend significantly on where each LED lands on the 5000k line).

Is Wurkkos / Sofirn on lockdown? I kinda want one of these but not if it will be delayed potentially several additional weeks…

There’s something odd going on. The AliExpress link that lists the Wurkkos with Nichia 219c only has black ones left and I thought the ones with Nichia are blue. I would check with Wurkkos; they are here on Budgetlight.

the initial purple splashed blue ts21 version with nichia 219c was a limited run and seems to be sold out now.
at present it is available in other host colors at wurkkos directly web store:
metal gray
([Clearance 30% OFF] Wurkkos Nichia 219C TS21 2800lm Flashlight with Anduril 2.0, 90CRI, 5000K USB C Rechargeable 21700 LED Flashlight)
i grabbed a several of them with diffusers as a smaller and less weighting anduril lantern alternative to the sofirn sp36 blf.
your pictures perfectly show their wonderful neutral tint and great color rendering :+1:
my familiy uses them often and we like them a lot!