Wurkkos TS21 with Nichia 219c 5000k - perfect "daylight neutral tint"? Impression & comparison w/ other high CRI LED's

Is Wurkkos / Sofirn on lockdown? I kinda want one of these but not if it will be delayed potentially several additional weeks…

There’s something odd going on. The AliExpress link that lists the Wurkkos with Nichia 219c only has black ones left and I thought the ones with Nichia are blue. I would check with Wurkkos; they are here on Budgetlight.

the initial purple splashed blue ts21 version with nichia 219c was a limited run and seems to be sold out now.
at present it is available in other host colors at wurkkos directly web store:
metal gray
([Clearance 30% OFF] Wurkkos Nichia 219C TS21 2800lm Flashlight with Anduril 2.0, 90CRI, 5000K USB C Rechargeable 21700 LED Flashlight)
i grabbed a several of them with diffusers as a smaller and less weighting anduril lantern alternative to the sofirn sp36 blf.
your pictures perfectly show their wonderful neutral tint and great color rendering :+1:
my familiy uses them often and we like them a lot!

I call this part of my house the “wall of truth” :slight_smile: . Shots against this wall so ruthlessly exposed differences. Top is Sofirn D25L headlamp with Samsung LH351D 5000k, above BBL with yellow greenish tint, bottom is Wurkkos with Nichia 219c 5000k, shown in previous test to be just above BBL and close to “daylight”, with magenta tint.

I find it remarkable that two extremely well regarded 5000k LED’s could look so different from each other. I really did not expect this when I started this thread.

It seems at extreme ranges of CCT, a 2700k light is going to look yellow/red and a 6500k light is likely to look blue. OTOH in the middle range CCT 3500-5000 or so, what a LED looks like seems to depend on CCT value, but very much also where it lands WRT to the BBL curve, above BBL (yellow green) or below BBL (rosy magenta).

> I find it remarkable that two extremely well regarded 5000k LED’s could look so different from each other. I really did not expect this when I started this thread.

Excellent photos and info, including using a consistent White Balance!

The green Tint and 9050 rating of the LH351d are the reasons I do not use that LED.

I find the green Tint is less obvious to my eyes, during the day, when my brain is adapted to using Sunlight CCT and Tint as a reference.

At night, my brain is adapted to Incandescent light sources which have less Green Tint than Sunlight and warmer CCT, so I tend to choose LEDs with CCT and Tint closer to those night time reference sources, that my brain is adapted to at that time.

For these reasons, I tend to choose a cooler CCT during the day (until recently that was 219b 4500k 9080 but I recently switched to 519a 4500k 9080), and a warmer CCT at night (219b 3000k 9080, or a dedomed 519a 4500k that comes down to 3400k). I also tolerate Tint that is closer to sunlight Tint, during the day.

here are a couple of 519a lights,

and a couple of 219b lights:

I'm really not one to interject this into conversations but why isn't running a 25 cent piece of zircon minus green filter a consideration ?

Because I sell it I find myself going out of the way to avoid commenting about using minus green filters .

In some of my favorite older convoy S2 lights I have xml 5C tints. for years I'd been promoting them as a easy answer to great tint and maybe a bit higher cri from a cree emitter .

When white wall hunting it's obvious that it has a tinge of green not really seen until you put it up against other lights .. even some older nichia219A's have a touch of green .So last night I thought /why not ? and stuck a piece of minus green under the lens of it while doing another s2+ with a SSt20 4000K that needed some green tint killing much more .

Simple short and dirty is that they both just got ,,,Better .

Better may not be perfect but guess what ? There is no perfect in tints . My great 5c tint got better... and all the 4000k sst20's deserve a minus green filter in every case, all the time ,without a doubt ,unequivocally .

Simplest answer is to just not use your computer at work .

If the boss takes issue with it ..tell him he's an ass for not seeing green in tints . Stand up for your rights !

It sure is. I’ve modded cars, cameras, audio stuffs all my life - modding has pluses and minuses (the mod itself has problem, time, headache lol) but it sure is a great way to improve and to learn. Other options:

  1. Change LED
  2. Read thread like this and don’t buy the light :slight_smile:

For me and I’m sure I’m not alone: personal preference. I actually want different tints in my collection and don’t necessarily always want that magenta tint. If every light in my collection has that same tint I would go crazy. The most obvious example is that last comparison between Wurkkos Nichia 219c vs Samsung LH351D here Wurkkos TS21 with Nichia 219c 5000k - perfect "daylight neutral tint"? Impression & comparison w/ other high CRI LED's - #24 by cannga. I was very careful not to say which is better, just diffferent, and wouldn’t put a green filter on the Samsung LED. Photography comparison exaggerates difference - by itself “in real life,” Samsung is not that green.

As a fairly hard core shutterbug, I should note that when I adjust WB of my pictures (shot in raw format), magenta tint is the last thing I would add to any picture (it’s ugly). That’s why hobbies are so interesting.

Some tints are so bad you can't fix .

point and case is the Thrunite ti3 NW. I was happy to see JonSlider swapping out the 519A and nichias in them . there's no other reasonable option .

You're allowed to say what's good or bad . Maybe not publicly but this is the internet , You're allowed to have an opinion ...even if it's wrong .

Not certain if you mean the V2 of the ti3 NW? I still remember when I got that as compared to the CW version. I thought it was beautiful! Continued liking it after the SC31 Pro with the SST40 6000k. I really thought it was a nice tint. Then I got the E02 II with the 4000k SST 20. What was once beautiful instantly became ugly. I can now see why you would make that argument. I really don’t have a good eye for such things but put them side by side in real time and I can tell the difference. What an amazingly interesting hobby!

The pictures in this thread are very interesting to me as well. The living room shots really point out the excellence of the 219c 5000k. Clearly the most accurate. However, I still like the SST-20 4000k. Not sure what I would think if I had both in person. However, from the pictures, even though I can see that the 219c is more accurate I just like the warmth of the SST-20 better. I’m happy with my TS21 with that setup and don’t think I would be happier with the 219c.

Thanks for the info; Wurkkos just told me the same thing. So my blue w/ splash is actually limited edition? I like it better already :slight_smile: . OTOH the red one is really tempting at only 30 bucks.

“accurate” when compared to 5000k White Balance, but at night, I dont see the Sun, instead I see 3000k Incandescent.

So the “most accurate” (“whitest”) under 3000k Incandescent White Balance, would be the LED whose CCT is closest to 3000k, not the 5000k LED… like this:

An example of the effect of white balance, compared to LED CCT…, I clipped these 3 red Hats from cannga’s excellent photos above…
Look at the backgrounds… See how the one on the left is the “whitest”, that is because it is closest to the 5000k White Balance used for the photo.

otoh, look at the backgroud of the second pic, it looks least “white”, because it has the warmest (lowest) CCT of the 3 samples (519a 4500k have been testing around 4300K actual).

next observe the differences in how Red the Hat in each photo looks… Since the 219c on the left is a 9050 LED, it has the lowest R9 CRI, so it makes the RED color Pop less, it looks more Maroon (Brown), than the other two 9080 LEDs. Iow, the 219c has the Least Brilliant (least accurate) Red Color Rendering…

Jon you really make me nervous crop-analyzing my pictures like this :slight_smile: .

Kidding aside - I put the hat there because of comments you have made, really. I suspected you were going to use it and appreciate the good analysis.

One interesting aspect I’ve noted is I can’t control where that hat is wrt spill and hot spot. For example a bright more floody LED/light like Convoy 519a means hat is more in hot spot zone whereas 219b means it’s a little more in spill zone, hence dimmer/less exposure and more magenta’ish.

all true, there are several variables in play, and photos are not exactly the same as what we experience in person. Photos are most useful for comparing various LEDs, when the observer has personal experience with at least one of the LEDs in the photo.

For example, I learned to recognize the “pink” Tint of sw45k in a photo, as an indicator of what my own sw45k use experience taught me. I learned SW45k made Red Pop, more than 219c, in actual use. I then made the “association” that Pink Tint “means” better color rendering.

but actually, Tint is separate from Color rendering, as is CCT… In a photo, we are seeing all those factors combined, plus with the effect of White Balance.

in the “real world”, I do not actually see the pink tint of my sw45k, when it is the single light source my brain is adapted to. Photos are just indicators by association.

What I value most is direct experience in actual use. I find the sw45k is not pink at all, at night… so, there are two main White Balance conditions, under which I evaluate an LED… but I usually only post photos from daylight white, because the topic is so complex

changing white balance, not only changes the apparent whiteness, it also changes the degree of sensitivity to “green” Tint. Sunlight is greener than Incandescent…

so, I really take note of your direct experience:

really appreciate you taking the time to share your personal impressions in actual use. (at night)

I dont find sw45k too pink at night, but I understand that it looks too pink during the day, and some people use flashlights when they are daylight adapted. For example, an Auto Mechanic will probably prefer the 519a to the sw45k, because the Tint of 519a is closer to the amount of Green Tint in sunlight (nominally DUV 0.0032). For someone using a flashlight when daylight adapted, LEDs that seem too green at night, work fine during the day.

Some of the popular High CRI LEDs w green tint include SST-20 and LH351d. Since most of my use is at night, those are not my first choice… I like 219b best (along with dedomed 519a), but am open to using 519a 4500k during the day, instead of sw45k

@cannga Im really enjoying your posts, photos, and perspectives… thanks for participating in the LED color and tint explorations. And for putting a Red Hat in the photo for me :wink:

And I too enjoyed reading your posts Jon. You have a lot of experience staring at wall (that’s a compliment! :innocent: ) and knowledge, and it shows.

As I stand for hours in the middle of night staring at the wall myself LOL, I also realize it’s a complex issue and I have to be extra careful with my description. One thing you might have said that I too notice is that the eyes/brain seem to adjust not just to brightness (constricting pupil), but also color (white balance) . If I look at 219b beam shot on the wall by itself it doesn’t look magenta, but the moment I start alternating it with SST-20 all of sudden 219b turns magenta and SST-20 extra green!

I think the above phenomenon is partly why photography exaggerates differences. Pictures of beam shots all together on one screen doesn’t allow the eye to adapt to one picture or the other, so eye/brain stays in “neutral ground” (for lack of a better word) and always notices one beam is rosy/light purple the other greenish.

“Daylight” white balance is nebulous and nearly meaningless word choice, use the exact CCT. Also, without mention to any of other meaningful characteristics of sunlight like Rf, Rg, the Kruithoff Curve, violet content, cyan content, far red content, infrared content, R12, flicker, and spectral power distribution this reads to me like another thread on why some people like magenta-colored lights.

Below are Nichia’s at different CCT’s. What has surprised me the most is how different the LEDs look, even within the Nichia family.

I am relieved at least that’s the two 219b 4500k of Emisar and Convoy look identical (Guys, one of you sells a funny 219b :innocent: ) . Either would be a great choice and IMHO a great addition to any collection. I like the small form of Emisar a little better, and it is fun to look at, but how do you turn down a 30 buck 219b Convoy? Especially with the 21700 battery, it really is an irresistible force LOL. Since 219b is no longer made, if you don’t have one yet, don’t hesitate - recommended without reservation :slight_smile: .

Wurkkos TS21 with Nichia 219c 5000k is another great choice - also 21700 battery, especially if daylight tint is what you are after. It’s a keeper and a very well made light. It’s also the only one with on board USB C charging, which I hope Convoy and Emisar will eventually get around to.

Lastly the other Convoy with 519a 4500k: It came as a big surprise how different it is from 219b. I actually prefer the warm yellow tone because personally it’s more relaxing to me (vs magenta), but as mentioned, shades of colors such as leaves & flowers along the trail etc. do stand out more and beautifully with the the 219b. A comparison between a 219b 4500k vs my Nitecore MH12S 6500k is always an eye-opening (pun intended) experience. The harsh blue light of Nitecore SST40 makes me forget that the path is actually colorful.

Great photo! really clear color comparisons.

regarding the variations in sw45, some are brighter and less pink, such as D220, or even D240, some are less bright and more magenta, such as D180 and D200

you may have seen this selection photo… a lineup of some of my 219b 4500k lights, with varying amounts of magenta tint


Wow that is such a pure clean neutral beam.

Glad I made this order. I wasn’t too happy with my TS21 using the triple SST20@4000k.

Looking through all these pictures, I think I found my new favourite LED.

That 219c is beautiful.