Wurkkos TS21 with Nichia 219c 5000k - perfect "daylight neutral tint"? Impression & comparison w/ other high CRI LED's

1. Yes that’s it. If you use this light at less than max level, or use it on/off short periods around the house, the TS21 is fine IMHO.

2. If you use the light for example for safety during an evening walk, where high output continuously is desired, then there are better choices. Its fast step-downs actually bothers me A LOT less than I seem to have written about. Personally I still love the light (it’s pretty, I need to collect this LED, and I use it around the house only), but as this thread is sort of an “impression/mini review” thread, I just feel the need to let people know what I found compared to other lights.

3. Having said that, I think it’s still desirable for hobbyists, with or without OCD lol, to have correct/appropriate temperature setting. And the stock setting is too low, for example versus the standard-setting Convoy lights. My beloved Convoy lights :slight_smile: seem to have the highest external temperature measured with my IR gun, around 60° C, versus 55° or below for most other lights. The TS21 stock setting of internal temp at 45° is way too low for its own good.

(Sorry for all the edits)

Thank you very much for your reply cannga

I generally use all my lights at medium to low levels. Or sometimes somewhere near, but not at the top of their brightness levels.

Turbo only ever gets used for less than 10 seconds at a time on any of my lights.

Then there’s nothing to worry about IMHO.

Just now notice your signature. Thanks for the chuckle. :wink:

Yes it will work with and without calibration however it really comes to life after you calibrate it.

I have the E2L with 219C 4000K and it is very similar to the SST20 4000K (in the IF25a and in my modified FC11 with TIR). I have the D4V2 with nichia 219b 4500k and it is ok but not better. I had trouble visibly differentiating 2 pieces of metal (as being 2 different pieces) in a mains plug with the 219b 4500K, which was really weird, so I checked and I didn’t have this issue with the other LEDs… (including an old S2+ with XML 4C). It looks whiter but it looks also that some loss of colour distinction is going on (just as the difference low-cri vs high-cri), outside at night it feels too cold (e.g. ground looks almost black) for me. I saw someone else mention this (loss of distinction) recently in a post on BLF too.

A light at night will often be used as the main light and for that a lower temperature is more comfortable. So the 4000K LEDs are more yellow but work very well and give less eye strain than higher temperatures while not being too low such that everything appears ‘yellow’ (i.e. the predominant impression is ‘everything looks yellow/orange’, such low temperature lights to me are mainly useful as comfortable reading lights for this reason, not work lights).

I had trouble with the LH351D in that I felt everything was off upstairs, where I used a lot of varnished pine plywood, but also felt something was off downstairs with wood laminate and various hard woods in various places. This looks to have been caused by too much green, i.e. the FC11 4000K LH351D was ok for many uses but in such places unpalatable. I have no such issues with the 219B, 219C, SST20 in 4000K/4500K, nor with the XML 4C which I also like a lot.

To compare lights I did something else than make pictures a while ago: On a sunny day I shone the lamps on the sections of pine plywood in the shade and compared it to the plywood directly in the sun, with 219C 4000K, SST20 4000K, 219b 4500k. This means I could compare the lights directly with the effect of sunlight and not have to worry about the camera, white balance, displays, etc. The 4000K lights (SST20, 219C) felt closer to reality than the 4500K 219B… This may be partially due to the yellowish colour of the plywood, it would be interesting to try this with other objects.

I also tried these pocket lamps + H04RC with 5000K 351D during the day as fill in light in a shed that is partially lit up from outside when opening the door, lighting on the lit + unlit sections:

- Overcast: 4000K lights appear a bit yellow, the 219B 4500K looks almost the same as the overcast daylight.

  • Full sunshine: 4000K looks very yellow, 219B 4500K better, the H04RC looks most similar.

The problem is that in both cases you need a lot of light to light up ‘dark’ sections which are only dark in comparison with the sunlight. This means for a pocket light such colour temperatures are barely of interest as they can’t provide enough light for a reasonable time due to thermal stepdown, this is mostly a useful consideration for higher power work lights… So about 5000K could be optimal for a daylight fill-in high output work lamp, but not for a pocket lamp.

The 5000K 351D makes everything look too bland at night so not at all acceptable for use when it is dark…

All in all my conclusion after trying out more LED types/temperatures (which is the same as my conclusion from manyyears ago): for pocket lamps 4000K or perhaps a bit higher, but in any case lower than 4500K is optimal for use mostly at night.

Fascinating discussions even for this lesser known Nichia no? :+1: :slight_smile:

Below is amazing work from @maukka (HERE) showing his Nichia 219C 5000k LED’s tantalizing R9 number of 81, and Ra 94. This means the highest possible rating R9080 when used with Convoy diffuser.

Still not quite the off-the-chart level of 219b sw45k (the top line) but outstanding nevertheless. This is a great LED to collect and until Simon decides to put it in his Convoy S21D or Sofirn in their excellent Sofirn IF25a, the Wurkkos TS21 is the best or only choice for a light with 21700 battery, with USB-C charging a bonus. (I really really like that red one!)

It seems that Wurkkos has a good batch of 219c LEDs.

Keep in mind, not all 219c LEDs are equal. I’ve had good and bad samples.
On average, the 219c has a higher duv = more green, than the 219b samples I have had.
But, there have been some very nice 219c samples in 4000k and 5000k.

I still have, and like, a few of the nicer 219c LEDs. I have not been able to source good 219c tints. So, the poor tinted 219c LEDS have been replaced with 219b, or shaved 351d, or more recently, 519a LEDs.

To me, the 219c and 351d are very similar. They both tend to have positive duv (green), but there are good neutral to negative duv batches. The difference is that the 351d is cheaper, easier to source multiple CCTs and duv reduces nicely when the dome is shaved.

Lately, I’ve been testing 519a LEDs and they will be my new high CRI got to LED.


I’ve found the key to happiness is not to look at flashlights back to back :slight_smile: , especially if against 219b sw45k. By itself a lot of lights look ok to my eyes, only with comparison then a green tint is emphasized.

I do have LH351D in 5000k (Sofirn headlamp) and 4000k (Sofirn SP36 BLF) and enjoy using both. Here is the picture of LH351D 5000k vs Nichia 219c 5000k. Now that I think about it; I’d like to test that LH351D with my Opple.

These variations are what make the hobby so much fun and interesting. It’s amazing how two 5000k LED’s could render colors so differently from each other. I am going to check again later to make sure I didn’t make a mistake labeling or mixing up the pictures :person_facepalming: lol.

For me, more than the ceiling and wall comparison, I found it interesting that the 219C can show the difference between the blinds, the window frame, and the wall. I think my preference is for a rosier tint than a greener tint.

Hopefully my TS21 arrives early next week so I can join in.

If anyone wants to do something fun and see how comparison whether photographically or in real life could trick our visual memory and exaggerate the tint we see, first go here:

and look at those 3 wall shots. The Nichia 219c 5000k, sandwiched between a very yellow SST20 4000k and a very magenta 219b sw45k, looks fairly “neutral” there without too much of a tint. Then come back here and look at the 2 pictures above and see how so magenta/rosy it looks next to the very greenish LH351D 5000k. All of this of course depends on your monitor, but I think it should be obvious.

In real life by itself without back to back comparison? 219c 5000k looks cool, “neutral” (don’t give me a hard time over this word, I know you want to, but please don’t :innocent: , and not magenta at all. IMHO.

thank you for the Opple measurement of the 219c 5000K at Tint Duv –0.0008

I agree that is a very “Neutral” (close to the BBL), Tint DUV, not to be confused with Neutral White Color Temperature…

the confusion over the word neutral can be clarified by including CCT or DUV qualifiers. Also helps to add DUV when using the term Tint

the most confused and bastardized term is “Neutral Tint”, which in popular mis-use refers to Neutral Color Temperature, not Tint DUV.

The Opple Tint DUV value, helps end that chaos and confusion…

DUV –0.0008 will look less green, or more magenta, than higher values, such as Tint DUV 0.0030, which is about where the SST-20 and LH351d tend to land.

otoh, sw45k Tint DUV measure about –0.0100, and anything with a higher number will look greener, or less magenta.

our brain is very good as spotting differences when making comparisons. it is also very good at white balancing itself, to a single source, after a few minutes

not all 219c have green tint like the SST-20… I have been suprised by several relatively more magenta 219c recently. Here is one light with 4000K 219c and DUV –0.0018

I quite like the Tint DUV… but I still know in the back of my mind that 219b, 519a, and E21a, all have higher R9 CRI than 219c…

choices are good
for people seeking Neutral Tint DUV similar to 219C, the Nichia 519a and E21a are superior in CRI R9, to 219c

Thanks Jon. FWIW, outside of LED availability for the DIY crowd, the one E21a light I found was from Emisar, but only at 4500k. And that one has a fairly significant tint shift. That’s why Hank has to use frosted optic for this particular LED, which cuts output measured at hotspot by roughly half unfortunately. I much prefer higher output so I switched to clear optic, but that tint shift once seen cannot be reversed.

The 219c 5000k otoh has a beautiful artifact free beam, and “proven” beam color (to me anyway) that looks closest to what things look during the day to my eyes, more than any other LED I have. Something which 519a may or may not have, possibly 5000k version, but definitely not the golden yellowish 519a 4500k that I have. A LED that has higher R9 is not necessarily “better”, if the overall beam “color” is not what you are looking for.

In the picture below, note how 519a baths the white ceiling, and the whole room, with golden yellow hue. And note how 219c 5000k more accurately separates white ceiling from beige wall. In other words, we luck out that this batch of 219c 5000k that Wurkkos has is a winner and hence I recommend it VERY highly. It’s great addition to any Nichia collection. :+1: :slight_smile:

can you show the 219c in a 3 beam shot w the E21a and 219b?

> A LED that has higher R9 is not necessarily “better”, if the overall beam “color” is not what you are looking for.

totally agree,
I avoid SST-20 4000K for that very reason, despite excellent R9, I dont like the Tint DUV above the BBL

glad you learned you like 5000K … and especially glad youy found a nice pink tint tinted one. Totally agree the 519a is more gold than pink…

really enjoying your posts

Ummm….silly question here: the aux light on the switch…it’s orange when voltage is good and blue when you need to charge, right? Coz it’s flashing blue when I’m charging so I’m assuming it’s the low voltage warning, right? And you can’t swap or change the aux power light button, right?

Newbie question….

Sure. This is E21a 4500k with frosted optic, nearly indistinguishable from 219b 4500k, although if I squint hard enough, maybe just maybe I see the yellow tint. With clear optic the green ring of E21a 4500k becomes somewhat “disturbing” in real life view but central brightness nearly doubles. The shots were set on fixed WB 5000k to compare color, but auto-exposure so exposure settings vary from pic to pic.

I had two sets of pics of the “wall of truth”. This second set was the “Jon Slider” version :+1: :slight_smile: with red hat in the middle.

AFAI remember:

Blue LED: Supposed to turn on during charging only (will explain why I wrote “supposed”). Flashing: charging is on going. Solid: charging is complete.
Amber LED: Supposed to stay on when not charging. In other words, it stays on whether light is turned on or off, but not during charging.

With my previous TS21 with SST20 LED, IIRC the blue would turn on randomly even when not charging, making the button purple (blue + amber = purplish).
With my new TS21 with Nichia 219c LED, the blue LED doesn’t seem to turn on as much. They’ve fixed something.

I’ve changed my light to one click turn-on to Turbo, and in this mode the LED’s are completely fixed. No more random blue light on.

my ts21 nichia and 18350 battery charging by usb computer 0,5A:

when it is charging, the blue light flashing, but i also noticed blu light flashing fast. does anyone know what the fast blue flashing means? thank you

Mine flashes fast while charging sometimes but not always. Keeps you guessing :smiley:

TS21’s button light = the bane of its existence. :person_facepalming: :smiley:

Kidding aside, I don’t seem have the fast flashing blue light, but I haven’t sat and stared at it during charging either. The button light’s problems really don’t bother me at all, but I’ve accidentally found that the way I set up my flashlight (one click to Turbo), the blue LED problem with this light is gone.

I set it up that way only because personally that’s how I use it (especially useful for this dim light). Not implying that you should, but if this blue light is driving you nuts lol and the one click to Turbo is not a problem for you, give this a try. It fixed my new TS21 with 219c 5000k and IIRC it fixed my old TS21 with SST20 also.

I’m ok with the quirks. Just wish future batches would work em out. I don’t use turbo much since it gets hot fast. Mine is set to one notch below and that gets hot pretty fast. Pound for pound I feel the single SST40 is a better choice for lights of this size. More usable lumens with less heat. Or maybe it is because it is a triple. I don’t know.