Wurkkos TS25 pre-production unit review and suggestion + some measurments from a production unit

LED Flashlights – General Info 21700 Flashlights
5

I drained the battery until the main LEDs turned off, at which point the Aux LEDs turned back on:
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the built in voltmeter in the light said 2.7V, my DMM says 2.86

this is after repeatedly restarting the light, after many repeated step down cycles… it is difficult to trigger the LVP because of voltage rebound

anyway, the exciting conclusion is Yes there is LVP on the main LEDs… Not on the Aux.

also fwiw, the switch button turns on blinking red when voltage is low…

so, lots of hints to recharge…. step downs, blinking button light… for the Main LEDs only.

This is a Review Sample of the TS25, it is NOT the Production run. We can hope that the Production Run will implement LVP for Aux also.

6

Thanks for the technical work. I really liked the look of the TS25, but the drain issues and LVP seem like repeat issues that happened to the TS21 too? I’m not sure if the TS21 has the drain issue fixed yet. It’s kinda concerning not having LVP on the aux (for the TS25) or LVP on the indicator LED (TS21). It could over discharge the battery right? It’s pretty easy to leave a battery in there for a while, long enough for 13mA or whatever to over discharge the battery.

7

you asked the same question yesterday, here is the answer:

8

I drained my battery to 2.70v and the aux leds turned off. So, I think the aux led by itself would not drain the battery below 2.7v.

When the aux leds were on (red displays the lowest voltage which I think is around 2.7v), my TS25 drew 6mA. After the aux leds were off due to the LVP, the light drew 0.05mA.

I was able to turn the main led back on when the aux led turned off, so when LVP of aux leds kicks in it doesn’t completely turn the circuit off. However, I don’t think it automatically turns the aux led back on once voltage bounces back.

I think the LVP behavior in TS25 is similar to that of other Anduril lights. I tested the same depleted battery (at around 2.7v) in Fireflies NOV-MU and E07X. It also consumes small amount of current (0.03mA).

9

> I drained my battery to 2.70v and the aux leds turned off.

thats great news for people who got one of the Pre Production Test Models with the Non Anduril based Aux :+1:

fwiw the Production run will use different Aux firmware, so we will want to reverify that it also has LVP for Aux. Plus the production run will not have the Voltage indicating Aux that you tested.

Any info about Aux in the PreProduction Run, does not apply to future runs.

10

Well… At least we know that they had set 2.7v as their lower limit and that they did something when the limit is reached.

We also know, from the previous cases (including this one), that they do not pay attention to parasitic drain numbers.
a) TS10 aux led is set to high on default. It draws up to 13mA.
b) TS25 aux led draws up to 26mA. There is no option to reduce the output other than to turn it off.
c) TS21 button led draws 13.5mA on high. ( Wurkkos TS21 tear down , Wurkkos TS21 with Nichia 219c 5000k - perfect "daylight neutral tint"? Impression & comparison w/ other high CRI LED's )

I understand this TS25 was a pre-production unit. However, they were confident enough to to sell it and ask $40 for it. Also, the high parasitic drain issue is not limited to this pre-production unit. The high parasitic drain numbers of TS10 or TS21 are from production units.

For this reason, I will make sure to check the parasitic drain numbers before I make another purchase from Wurkkos.

11

great info, thank you for taking the time to confirm there IS Aux LVP in the TS25.

12

Ouch. Do you think the production version of the TS25 will have the programming pads exposed for easy flashing?

With both the TS25 and the TS21, I’m hoping the blinking mode button indicator light would consume a reasonable amount of current. I’ve yet to see someone measure the blinking mode current.

13

As for flashing pad, only the manufacturer will know for sure. I hope they offer the flashing pads and the flashing kit. The exposed flashing pads is what many forum users want, so Wurkkos may indeed implement it. However, Wurkkos has a good reason not to include them because including it adds one more way that a light can go wrong.

I read that blinking mode power consumption is not much higher than the low mode.

  1. In the following link, cannga measures voltage drop in TS21 when the button is set to blink. Wurkkos TS21 with Nichia 219c 5000k - perfect "daylight neutral tint"? Impression & comparison w/ other high CRI LED's - #100 by cannga He observes 0.112V drop in voltage over three weeks whereas the low mode dropped the voltage by 0.079V.
  2. Here SammysHP measures how voltage changes in very short time window with aux off vs blinking in Emisar D4v2. Wurkkos TS21 tear down - #133 by SammysHP The graph shows a small difference between off and blink.
14

I did a simple real life experiment on the power consumption of the aux leds in TS25. It took about 7 days to completely drain a half empty battery.

I put 40T (at 3.63V) in TS25 with aux leds on. Aux leds were set to display voltage. The battery lasted 7 days without any use. The aux leds were off when I took the measurement on the last day, but I saw orange light from the aux led a couple of hours before it.

15

thanks for confirming Aux has LVP… I just turn them off. I guess Im not really an Aux guy, dont see a point to running them 24/7.

Still a nice light, great 519a leds.

16

Thank you for doing that work. I guess aux LEDs on this light aren’t meant to be used 24-7. I’ve never had a light with aux LEDs, and I was under the impression that they can be used to help find the light in the dark. But if it only last a couple of weeks, that’s not really viable.

The LED on the button is much lower current draw right? That can be left on 24-7, at least on low?

17

Almost all lights I purchased in the past two years are lights with RGB aux with only handful exceptions.

I guess I am attracted to the functionality of RGB aux and the looks. RGB aux can display useful information about the light (I can take a glance and check my battery level) and it looks quite nice on the desk.

However RGB lights can consume significant amount of battery. On my D4V2, it can consume up to 8mA on high aux setting. (The power consumption depends how many R, G, B leds are lit) At this level power consumption, it is not practical to leave them on 24/7. Here are some measurements ( Emisar D4V2 and D4SV2 auxillary LED current draw ) from a user which shows about half of my measurements, so it may be that Hank reduced the power consumption in later models. Nevertheless I think they are quite high.

This is why I think it is important to have an easy option to mechanical lock out the lights. All of Hank lights I own has this feature. I own D4v2, KR4, and D1v2. And the heads of the lights can be turned only slightly to mechanically lock out the lights. Moreover, the lights are designed so that heads can be turned easily: KR4 has small vertical slits, D4v2 has the switch bump, and D1v2 has large cut out. I hope the production version from Wurkkos has the similar features.

18

The single color aux led on the button should draw much lower current. However the button led on TS25 cannot be configured to stay on when the main led is off.

I have a TS30S which has a green button LED. On low output, the light consumes 0.07mA (with periodic 0.3mA for Anduril + voltage check ). In low setting, I can see the aux led in a well-lit room and it is not so bright that it bothers me in the dark. I think the setup in TS30S is well-balanced and practical.

From what I observed so far, RGB leds consume too much power to be visible and to be left on all the time. It could be set to consume low power, but then it would be so dim that it becomes meaningless unless in the complete dark. I chose to mechanically lock out the lights with RGB aux leds, but I think there could be other smart solutions. For example, the light could be programmed lower the brightness of RGB aux leds after one hour of inactivity.

19

Just to clarify, you’re saying the button LED can’t be used to help locate the light in the dark? I accept that the aux LEDs are too current hungry to be used as a 24-7 indicator light. But the button indicator LED can’t be set for 24-7 indicator duty? That doesn’t seem right. Is this just a pre-production thing?

20

In the current version the button LED is not controlled by Anduril and turns only on for five seconds after you turn on the light to show the approximate state of charge (red/green). It cannot be used as a permanent indicator.

21

That is correct at least for this pre-production TS25. The button LED does not turn on when the main led is off. So, it cannot be used to locate the light in the dark.

Other Wurkkos light with button led such as TS21 or TS30S behave differently. Those lights can be configured so that the button light turns on when main leds are turned off. But those lights do not have RGB aux leds.

As far as I know, RGB aux and button leds output levels are linked in the lights that have both. So, I don’t think you can turn off the RGB aux leds and turn on the button leds. This type of setting makes sense in a way because RGB aux leds only turn on when the main leds are off. The logic is like this. Why get lights with RGB aux leds if you are not going to use them?

22

Usually the hardware allows to control RGB aux and switch LED individually. There are some forks of Anduril which have added extra configuration options to set each individually.

23

Thanks for this review, and I agree with @Limsup. I wish aux led current was something that was easier to find. It’s complicated because with Anduril 2, the aux can be bright, dim, flashing, and some rainbow rolling combo. But not only does brightness level change current consumption, but also the color. When I measured Hank’s D4K, pure blue and green aux consume like 1/5th the current as certain combinations like orange (red+green). And the pure red color had had much higher current than pure blue or pure green.

And there’s also the issue with LVP not being active for certain modes. For D4K, LVP works for all aux modes (high, low, blinking). But on the Wurkkos TS21 for example, LVP only works for blinking, and high and low aux levels have no LVP protection. It’s still important to know that some lights have a safe aux mode and the other aux modes will over discharge your battery. Granted, the difference between aux off idle current (75uA) on aux on low (197uA) isn’t huge in the TS21, but it’s still notable. So continuously displaying the battery voltage via aux color is an awesome feature and very Anduril thing to do, the current consumption to do that may not be practical. And I hate impractical features that make the light more expensive.

As much as I like aux on the D4K, it’s really only useful on low. High consumes too much current to be practical, and it’s really only useful for showing off your pretty lights on some forums.

So it’s been a couple months and the TS25 is available now. Any word on if these issues have been solved? The low aux level setting issue, LVP protection for aux modes, and programming pads? Anyone received a non-pre-production unit?

24

I recently ordered and received the production model. Here are some of my observations.

Standby currents:
aux off: 0.07~0.10mA
aux low: ~0.46mA
aux high: ~12.17mA (Purple 10.42mA, Blue 4.18mA, Cyan 6.27mA, Green 2.55mA, Yellow 9.20mA, Red 7.20mA)

The power consumption on high aux is halved compared to the pre-production unit. However, the RGB aux is still very bright. TS25 on high aux measured about three times brighter than D4V2 on high. (TS25 blue on high 835lux vs. D4V2 blue on high 265lux)

The aux on low is very dim and very hard to notice. You can notice the aux led light if you see the TIR from the side, but if you look at the light from the front they are almost impossible to notice even in the dark.

The button led does not turn on when you turn on the light. In my pre-production model, the button led turned green or red depending on battery level, but it does not do that any more in the production unit. It only turns on when being charged or acting as a power bank.

The power bank quality is decent. The output is fairly well regulated. I don’t see high voltage ripple that you can see on cheaply made power banks.

TS25 power bank can supply 3A at 5V. You have to use quality cables to achieve this output. When USB-C cables are plugged in, it correctly detects the attached device and supplies power.

Peak to peak voltage difference is measured around 60mV. On top of the notch power banks I own, the numbers are kept as low as 30mV. My Samsung OEM 25W USB-C adapter was measured 100mV and 10W USB adapter was measured 30mV. So, I would say TS25 power bank is on par with OEM power adapter.

I am not knowledgeable enough to comment on safety features of the TS25’s power bank feature. I am a little reluctant to use a power bank if it is not made by reputable brand as I had a catastrophic experience with bad power banks. But so far, it passes the output stability test for me.