FW3A, a TLF/BLF EDC flashlight - interest list closed, check your inbox for coupon code

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BurningPlayd0h
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For me the smaller/throwier emitters are almost a necessity in a triple or quad TIR light. That’s why I plan to swap some SST-20s into my FW3A as soon as I get it unless I end up really liking the LH351Ds with a 10507 or even the stock frosted. X-PL HI would be nice but its hard for me to justtify give up high CRI AND pay more when these new high CRI emitters can be had for so cheap and are constantly closing the efficiency gap with 70-CRI, high output bin options.

With a very floody beam like on a Nichia D4 for example the output needed to have any reach is just too high. The heat production and battery drain make it far less practical for any outdoor use IMO.

ToyKeeper
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A single-emitter light can have decent throw with a large emitter like the LH351D. A triple of the same size needs something smaller though, to avoid being extremely floody.

However, that said… I still think the compact-triple beam looks very nice with XP-L HI. And, comparing it to a 95CRI SST-20, I still prefer the XP-L HI because the rosy 70 CRI tint looks better to me than the SST-20’s 95 CRI greenish tint. I reserve the right to change my mind though, if we ever get any rosy-tinted SST-20 emitters.

reddin
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I’m interested in one with the Samsung emitter.

lmcmann
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mortuus wrote:
would a copper fw3a be out of the question ? since it handles heat superior.

Yes, I’m using the awful quote button!
I’m reading through threads, so if this has been answered later, sorry.
I’m totally up for an all copper FW3C. Charge me. I’m happy to pay for at least two (assuming 100ish ea).
Add me to the list!
cabfrank
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They don’t exist, and there is no list for them. The only list is for the original aluminum, and even that doesn’t exist yet.

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I’m not a huge fan of all copper lights. I only own one: A prototype Sinner Cypreus 18650 triple. My impressions:

  • Copper is HEAVY. The all-copper Cypreus looks great but is way too heavy for pocket EDC in my opinion. This is the biggest negative of using copper for an EDC light
  • Copper conducts heat sometimes a little too well. I found that with the Sinner Cypreus triple the body would get extremely hot extremely fast. So much so that I would have to rapidly ramp output down just to protect my hand. Not much point in using a lot of copper if the end result is you get even less time at max power.
  • The copper looks great when freshly polished, but tarnishes rapidly. This can be fixed by putting a finish on the copper during manufacturer like was done with the Emisar D4’s copper heads on the Titanium-copper version of that light.
Boaz
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 Copper lights stink and make you hands smell . About as much fun as using an old sponge in the kitchen.

 I'm looking forward to the FW3S  Stainless  although I'll probably take one and strip it to make a FW3N-> naked

 How about swappable /extra heads with different emitter combos

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JasonWW
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Firelight2 wrote:
  • Copper conducts heat sometimes a little too well. I found that with the Sinner Cypreus triple the body would get extremely hot extremely fast. So much so that I would have to rapidly ramp output down just to protect my hand. Not much point in using a lot of copper if the end result is you get even less time at max power.

Typically speaking, if you have two identical lights with one made of aluminum and one made of copper, you will get MORE time at max power with the copper. It’s been proven over and over again.

Just recently I remember someone (maybe Maukka?) measuring the Turbo temps on an Astrolux S43 (aluminum head) and S43S (copper head). Both lights draw a lot of amps. The S43 held Turbo for about 30 seconds and the S43S held Turbo for about 40 seconds. So copper does have its advantages, but it’s up to each person to decide if they want it.

I agree that the weight and tarnishing of copper tends to make me want to avoid those lights, but that’s just me. Aluminum has the advantage on weight and cost and still handles heat pretty well.

Still, some people like these more unusual materials, even if they cost more, weigh more and maybe don’t conduct heat well. They are definitely nice for collecting. Big Smile

Ps, I’ve never had a titanium light. If they do a titanium FW3 I’ll be curious about it.

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My biggest problem with stainless steel is it’s even heavier than copper. I don’t think I’d want an FW3A in my pocket that weighs nearly a pound.

Frankly, from a practical perspective in terms of weight, heat, and cost nothing beats aluminum. But if I want a bit more bling without making the light too heavy, I’d accept Titanium.

MtnDon
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I like the appearance of copper a lot. They make wonderful shelf queens, but are not great EDC lights because of the weight. My opinion.

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Firelight2
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JasonWW wrote:
Firelight2 wrote:
  • Copper conducts heat sometimes a little too well. I found that with the Sinner Cypreus triple the body would get extremely hot extremely fast. So much so that I would have to rapidly ramp output down just to protect my hand. Not much point in using a lot of copper if the end result is you get even less time at max power.

Typically speaking, if you have two identical lights with one made of aluminum and one made of copper, you will get MORE time at max power with the copper. It’s been proven over and over again….

Well yeah.

You’re correct if you’re tailstanding the light over an integrating sphere. Copper can hold more heat than aluminum and also conducts it better than aluminum. A copper light in that situation will absolutely run longer at higher power than an aluminum light.

However, that test isn’t necessarily accurate for real-world usage, because it fails to take into account that most of the time when you use your light you will hold it in your hand. Evil

Surprisingly, your hand can take a lot LESS heat than both copper and aluminum. It isn’t necessarily helpful to have a light that take take a lot more heat if it is being held in your hand, which cannot. Unless you don’t mind your hand looking like a baked chicken after using your light.

Upgrading your hand to be able to withstand more heat from an all-copper light is not easy and may require gloves … or cybernetic technology that doesn’t exist yet. Sick

JasonWW
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Boaz wrote:

I’m looking forward to the FW3S  Stainless  although I’ll probably take one and strip it to make a FW3N-> naked



Stainless Steel was never mentioned as an option. Just Brass, Copper and Titanium.
Firelight2
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JasonWW wrote:
Boaz wrote:

I’m looking forward to the FW3S  Stainless  although I’ll probably take one and strip it to make a FW3N-> naked

Stainless Steel was never mentioned as an option. Just Brass, Copper and Titanium.

For a truly lightweight experience we should ask for Magnesium!

A magnesium flashlight body would also make sure any accidental battery shorts are truly memorable! EvilEvilEvil

JasonWW
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Firelight2 wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
Firelight2 wrote:
  • Copper conducts heat sometimes a little too well. I found that with the Sinner Cypreus triple the body would get extremely hot extremely fast. So much so that I would have to rapidly ramp output down just to protect my hand. Not much point in using a lot of copper if the end result is you get even less time at max power.

Typically speaking, if you have two identical lights with one made of aluminum and one made of copper, you will get MORE time at max power with the copper. It’s been proven over and over again….

Well yeah.

You’re correct if you’re tailstanding the light over an integrating sphere. Copper can hold more heat than aluminum and also conducts it better than aluminum. A copper light in that situation will absolutely run longer at higher power than an aluminum light.

However, that test isn’t necessarily accurate for real-world usage, because it fails to take into account that most of the time when you use your light you will hold it in your hand. Evil

Unfortunately, your hand can take a lot LESS heat than both copper and aluminum. It isn’t necessarily helpful to have a light that can take a lot more heat if it is being held in your hand, which cannot.

Upgrading your hand to be able to withstand more heat is not easy and may require gloves, or cybernetic technology that doesn’t exist yet. Sick


No, it’s not about “taking more heat”. Both lights got up to the same temperature before stepping down.

When it comes to little powerhouse lights it’s always nice to have NarsilM, RampingIOS or Anduril so that you can adjust the thermal stepdown yourself. Then you never have to worry about it getting too hot.

chadvone
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+1 for Naked. I am also looking forward to the FW3W WOOD.

+1 for FW3M

Firelight2
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JasonWW wrote:
No, it’s not about “taking more heat”. Both lights got up to the same temperature before stepping down.

When it comes to little powerhouse lights it’s always nice to have NarsilM, RampingIOS or Anduril so that you can adjust the thermal stepdown yourself. Then you never have to worry about it getting too hot.

Have you ever actually tried holding a copper version of a light side-by-side with an aluminum version of the same light?

The copper feels much, MUCH hotter in the hand. This is because the copper is more efficient at pulling the heat away from the LEDs to the exterior of the light. Also, aluminum anodizing tends to insulate a bit more than bare aluminum or copper.

I can hold an aluminum Emisar D4 at full power for probably twice as long as I can hold my much heavier and dimmer Sinner Cypreus copper triple.

hank
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The thing about long signatures is —- people quit seeing them after a while.
The brain filters out pointless repetition. Like hearing the same ad over and over.
Fortunately, there’s also software available here for that filtering
http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1300106
You know the two rules for civilization: don’t annoy people, and don’t be too easily annoyed.

JasonWW
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Firelight2 wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
No, it’s not about “taking more heat”. Both lights got up to the same temperature before stepping down.

When it comes to little powerhouse lights it’s always nice to have NarsilM, RampingIOS or Anduril so that you can adjust the thermal stepdown yourself. Then you never have to worry about it getting too hot.

Have you ever actually tried holding a copper version of a light side-by-side with an aluminum version of the same light?

The copper feels much, MUCH hotter in the hand. This is because the copper is more efficient at pulling the heat away from the LEDs to the exterior of the light. Also, aluminum anodizing tends to insulate a bit more than bare aluminum or copper.

I can hold an aluminum Emisar D4 at full power for probably twice as long as I can hold my much heavier and dimmer Sinner Cypreus copper triple.


I only have one copper light, an S43S, so I can’t directly compare anything.

Have you considered swapping the driver in your Sinner for one with Bistro or Guppydrv, etc… so that you can manually set the temperature step down? That might make it nicer to use on Turbo.

It’s wierd that the Sinner is dimmer, yet heats up quicker. Does the Sinner draw less or more amps from the battery than the D4? I’m not very familiar with either of these lights.

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JasonWW wrote:
Have you considered swapping the driver in your Sinner for one with Bistro or Guppydrv, etc... so that you can manually set the temperature step down? That might make it nicer to use on Turbo..

 I'm pretty sure Firelight2 doesn't know how to mod lights . Silly

 

Oh man ....now I'm thinking Burled Oak ,Quilted Ash,Curly Maple?  FW3Wood

 

 Wonder who will be the first to bake one ?

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CRX
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This is why I put some CF on this, stops most of the copper smell transfering to hands, less tarnishing & buffers the heat a little on high output. (Plus I like the look) Big Smile

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CRX, would it be possible to estimate thermal resistance of that CF layer?
Could you tell us the thickenss?

Agro
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My off the napkin and not necessarily correct calculations agree with Firelight2.

Copper gives better sustained performance but shorter turbos. Unless turbo is actually quite long, so better heat shedding helps.

The CRX way with carefully chosen insulation thickness (I think it should be quite thin…and too thin is better than too thick) can get the same thermal path from LED to skin as alu – and so the same LED temperature. However it will spread heat around the host better leading to higher sustained performance. Also turbo times should be much better than either alu or copper alone. More than 50% for sure.

I have 1 copper light and I EDC it nowadays.
Astrolux A1.
With a light this small the extra weight doesn’t matter every day. I also EDC Lumintop GT Mini (with a shorty tube). If that light was copper – no way I would carry it around.
I would love to have some larger copper host just for the sake of it but I wouldn’t use it very much.

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In other news, still no news… sorry. CNY takes a while.

The FW3A proto4 is still working nicely, except for the issue already noted. I get occasional short+reboot errors when A) the parts go out of alignment, B) I’m holding the button, and C) it’s using more than 1×7135 worth of power. Loosen/tighten the tube though, and it’s happy again for another day or two.

So I’m hoping that’ll be taken care of. My proto2 unit doesn’t do this. Even with that issue though, I still find it nicer overall than most of my other lights.

CRX
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Agro wrote:
CRX, would it be possible to estimate thermal resistance of that CF layer? Could you tell us the thickenss?

It is 27mm x 25mm (1mm wall) 3K roll wrapped matt tube bonded to the copper with a very thin layer of JB Weld, something like 5-7 in plane, .5-.8 transverse for CF/ resin if that helps, I just know it takes the edge off Big Smile
https://www.christinedemerchant.com/carbon_characteristics_heat_conducti...

CRX
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Did you manage to level the driver so the signal tube sits properly or still at an angle?

Agro
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CRX wrote:
Agro wrote:
CRX, would it be possible to estimate thermal resistance of that CF layer? Could you tell us the thickenss?

It is 27mm x 25mm (1mm wall) 3K roll wrapped matt tube bonded to the copper with a very thin layer of JB Weld, something like 5-7 in plane, .5-.8 transverse for CF/ resin if that helps, I just know it takes the edge off Big Smile
https://www.christinedemerchant.com/carbon_characteristics_heat_conducti...


If I understand that correctly – that’s a lot of insulation. Your LEDs will unsolder before it burns you on Turbo. It may become burning hot on a lower level though.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=70W%2F(0.5W%2Fm+K+)*1mm%2F675mm%5E2

1 mm of Titanium should be better…though actually a bit thin.

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CRX wrote:
Did you manage to level the driver so the signal tube sits properly or still at an angle?

Ish. Not very well though. One can only do so much with a dremel. And to make things fit a little better I filed down the edges of the driver as far as they can go without making it not work any more, so there’s only a hair width of ground ring left. It’s not ideal.

In any case, my proto4 is now modified and no longer represents what to expect from a stock light. After CNY, I hope Lumintop will have some good news for us.

CRX
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Maybe the formulas aren’t the best way to judge it then.
When I first made the light I had a copper core & titanium outer shell but felt it was too much power not getting distributed through the metal, head area around the pill was scorching hot on turbo & rapid stepdown but the light was relatively cool elsewhere.

So I changed the shell to all copper but then the whole thing got too hot to handle while having a decent temp threshold (60°) Big Smile

Then I tried the additional CF sleeve which made holding the light bearable though it still gets very hot.

CRX
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ToyKeeper wrote:
CRX wrote:
Did you manage to level the driver so the signal tube sits properly or still at an angle?

Ish. Not very well though. One can only do so much with a dremel. And to make things fit a little better I filed down the edges of the driver as far as they can go without making it not work any more, so there’s only a hair width of ground ring left. It’s not ideal.

In any case, my proto4 is now modified and no longer represents what to expect from a stock light. After CNY, I hope Lumintop will have some good news for us.

Yes, lots of people looking forward to this one becoming available.
Remember you can send any of these protos to me to try to fix if you like Innocent

Agro
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CRX wrote:
Maybe the formulas aren’t the best way to judge it then.

That’s perfectly possible.

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