So I noticed the new Panasonic NCR18650PF show up in the new products page at FastTech. I'm struggling to see the difference from the NCR18650PD. Keeppower issued this news statement. So what's so great about it?
-Garry
The only thing different that i can see is “new generation” and BNG (bold new graphics)!!
Different chemistry?
Wait, panasonic NCR can do 10 amp safely? Have I been wasting my life with lowly cgr18650ch?
I thought it was the 10A discharge, but the other says 10A as well.
The only thing i could find was the internal resistance change, and the chemistry change,
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the PD is 22mΩ with a Lithium Nickel Cobalt Aluminium core,
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the PF is 35mΩ with a Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide core.
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From what i can tell, the new PF chemisty will be better for longer high drain applications and should be less prone to damage over time.
Thanks StyXSIS!
Anyone have any experience with both this Panasonic NCR18650PF and the Samsung INR18650-20R? I’m looking for a good high drain battery for a single cell light driven at about 3.7 A - 4.0 A.
Im assuming XM-L, or XM-L2.
Id say go with PF since it should be able to do 4A peak and have way better capacity.
If you want to stay at peak (4A) longer, and runtime is of no concern. 20R.
Yes, XM-L2. I’m looking for a balance between output and runtime, so I’ll try the NCR18650PF. It’s even cheaper than the NCR18650PD at FastTech.
The PF is a nice cell for sure. It is supposed to last longer (more charge cycles, handle more abuse) than the PD. It appears that it also performs as well or better than the PD.
Here's a review from Tom E:
Ordered 4 of these at first, and 2 protected versions. In my 4.9A Nanjg, copper pill, XM-L2 U2 configured HD2010, when fresh at full charge, these got higher amp readings than the Pana PD's they replaced! Interesting because the PF specs said they had higher resistance than the PD's, but opposite seems to be true. Here are some of the measured amps, all fresh charged: Pana PD's: 4.26A/4.25A Pana PF's: 4.43A/4.45A Powerizer: 4.90A Samsung 20R: 4.83A Samsung 20Q: 4.50A Sanyo UR 18650FM: 3.85A Panasonic B (3400, unprot): 3.69A ** There are variations, and some cells are 4.21v, others may be as low as 4.16v. If 2 cells were tested, both are listed separated by a slash (/). ** Highly recommend these for there longer runtimes of 2900 mAh at high amps
Nice, the PF looks to be exactly what I need.
Try to imagine halfway between, with the PF slightly outperforming the PD, and the result is a cell that's about even with the 20R at 4A. That's a WAG but not a bad one :) Since the 4A will be a "turbo" mode, not in constant use, then the PF seems to be a better choice.
The new LG E1 3200 will be better than Panasonic PF at 4amps. At anything more than 4amps Samsung 20r and Sony 30a are the best.
I wasn’t sure so I ordered both the PF and the 20R. I lack the equipment to test output at various currents, but I can at least test output vs runtime at a single current.
RMM's results: https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/22440?page=2#comment-532926
you may have seen this already
I should put an asterisk by this post... it is data but I still feel it is incomplete because it wasn't in an actual light; I have seen higher peak amp numbers out of the PF in an actual light than what this data shows and I suspect that the other cells (besides the 20R) will show higher peak amps as well in an actual light. I will get to some of those soon enough and report back. I also need to get some data at 15 minutes +.
Thanks, I hadn't seen that. Wish I'd seen that source before ordering from Slowtech. The problem with those LG cells is charging to 4.35V. The cheapest 4.35V charges I can find were single cell USB chargers that are like $50. Otherwise the only choices are high end hobby chargers and lab equipment. We'll likely never see 4.35V "consumer" chargers due to the high risk of someone accidentally charging a 4.2V cell and burning his house down.
Don’t worry, we will be seeing more & more 4.35v chargers. Prices should come down. :bigsmile:
China doesn’t care about any risks. They are out of the reach of local laws & regulations anyway. 
If its an AC powered charger just wait for an HKJ review.
To be clear, my problem is with the government in china.
Which makes me ask how relevant is only one charger specimen being tested and how the components or the layout will change in several months time to cut the costs of a certain device, most do not specify that changes have been done or not.