Jacob A60 vs. Yezl

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Badger4715
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Jacob A60 vs. Yezl

So a little ways back I posted the question- What 18650 light will out throw the Jacob A60? Some of the Maxtoch lights were mentioned along with the yezl. Well, I went ahead and picked up the Yezl- not even close. My Jacob absolutely DESTROYS the Yezl. So… I’m afraid to drop $75 on a Maxtoch only to have its buttcheeks violated by the Jacob as well.

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This is a stock A60 against a stock Y3 with both using the same battery?

BLF

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for single 18650 lights, i don’t know of another stock single-18650 light that will out throw the A60. ( at least i haven’t found one yet.)

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Pretty amazing for a generations old emitter in a $10 flashlight, isn't it? Every enthusiast needs at least one in their collection.

mudgripz
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I have a Jacob A60 on one rifle which reads 58k lux (about average), a stock M24 which reads 82k lux, a dedomed M24 at 179k lux, and a dedomed 2X at 256k lux.

As expected the stock M24 (82k) outthrows the A60, and a stock $75 2× (120k) was better again. But the key difference is the amount of useful light the Maxtochs XML put down range.

As someone else notes above there appears to be no single 18650 batt light to outthrow the A60, though the Maxtoch M12 (single 26650 though) will do it.

Yezl well regarded wee light. There is alot of variation in quality and output these days with HD2010s/C8s/A60s and it is possible you got lucky and bought a very high performing A60. Does happen.

Great wee light. If you want a v long distance thrower for $75 get the 2X and dedome it. Or if beam width/utility doesn’t matter maybe a Dereelight X-Searcher aspheric at $120 or so – limited application though..

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Badger4715 wrote:
So a little ways back I posted the question- What 18650 light will out throw the Jacob A60? Some of the Maxtoch lights were mentioned along with the yezl. Well, I went ahead and picked up the Yezl- not even close. My Jacob absolutely DESTROYS the Yezl. So... I'm afraid to drop $75 on a Maxtoch only to have its buttcheeks violated by the Jacob as well.

Do you recall your own thread here: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/34170?

Me and others spent a lot of time and effort into helping you out there. In post #25, I clearly stated the Y3 is probably under the throw of your A60. Sounds like you got a hot A60 - it definitely happens - mostly dependent on what emitter bin: the EZ900 or EZ1000 - EZ900 is a smaller dye that throws further, but less lumens. You could have gotten a bad Y3 as well. So, you saved money by buying a Y3 vs. what we recommended for a single cell light - the MaxToch M12, and I mentioned it would throw less than your A60.

Hhhmmm..........

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Gj wrote:

Pretty amazing for a generations old emitter in a $10 flashlight, isn’t it? Every enthusiast needs at least one in their collection.

I was very late to the party, but I absolutely agree.

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Gj wrote:

Pretty amazing for a generations old emitter in a $10 flashlight, isn’t it? Every enthusiast needs at least one in their collection.

While we’re on the subject, where are folks buying the A60 at $10 these days? I see that GB has it for $12.59, is that the best price? TIA!

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
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GB had a code for $9.99, I think. Cereal Killer posted it ~Sept.26(?), can't remember which thread. The 'add to cart' button isn't working @GB for me right now, might be out of stock? I think the code was A60, though. Undecided 

http://www.gearbest.com/led-flashlights/pp_15296.html

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Ah, I didn’t notice that it was out of stock. Thanks. I’m still not convinced I need one.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
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If you get the good XRE, and it's got a good star mount (no foreign materials under the star Smile), the thing can really throw - it seems to take full advantage of the XRE. It's a very cool tint from what I recall, and that can be deceptive to how bright the hot spot is as closer distances, when compared to typical 1A tints. Not sure, but maybe that's maybe slightly deceptive about the A60's throw. From my experiences, the meters don't lie, comparatively speaking. I've seen how the meter readings track from light to light, then going outdoors and comparing the lights side by side, they always track the same seeing the beams down field as does the meter readings indoors.

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+1.

Sometimes hard to pick exact throw distance by watching lights shone say up close on a wall, whereas lux meter picks them precisely and field testing confirms it.

I have had huge output variation in for example C8s – with lux readings varying from 15-32kcd. A60s also made by few companies and its entirely possible this is one very bright A60. Could just be an 80kcd A60, but most appear to be round 60kcd mark. Be good to lux test both your A60 and Yezl.

I like my A60 and have used it as a scope light for years, but if buying a sub $30 thrower now I’d take the Yezl. 10 minutes dedome and zero cost and its over 100+kcd with great throw plus useful beam width. Our pencil beam lights have limited applications.

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First let me clarify- please forgive me if it sounded like I’m knocking the advice received on BLF. I definitely don’t mean to disparage any suggestions- quite the opposite, I use this forum because there is probably no better place to go with a flashlight question. I went with the Yezl A. yes it was cheaper and B. Everything I’ve heard about has been very positive. I like it, it looks good, feels good and it does throw well-very well so I’m glad to have one in my collection. I’ve lurked around blf long enough to understand a few things about emitters, and emitter size paired with reflector size so don’t get me wrong, I didn’t expect a $25 or $30 xml light to stomp all over the A60. From what was said by other members and from what I learned with some research, I expected to see the Yezl perform somewhere NEAR the A60. I was not prepared to see it get trounced by it though. And yes, I ran both with a Tenergy L-ion rechargeable 18650. Price is not the issue- I could just buy two or 3 top-end lights and be done with it, but I just plain like flashlights and like having a variety to choose from. The problem is, I’ve got somewhere near 40 and I use maybe 2 or 3 on a regular basis so I’m getting to the point where I’m buying these lights and not using them which drives my wife insane. So it gets harder and harder to justify a $40-$60-$80 light. The Yezl is too fat for my duty-belt and is nothing spectacular so it will most likely sit with the rest of them. Time to start softening her up for the next one. …

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Well, let’s be clear about something; the YEZL Y3 and A60 have different beam profiles and throwier for one isn’t the same as throwier for the other, but it’s the same with the XR-E vs a laser. A laser-pointer will reach about 4 miles or longer under the right conditions, but that doesn’t make the laser a better illuminator or “thrower” light—same with the A60 vs Yezl, much less the higher-end lights like the Maxtoch throwers.

When I take out my Forest Tiger 510 (side-switch version of the A60), it throws super tight and is really cool, but it doesn’t put more light down range than the Y3, HD2010, etc. It isn’t as useful a light as the XM-L(2) throwers. So I think it’s the beam profile that is working for you as opposed to actual throw.

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Badger – just my 2c worth but given what you’ve got, in your position I’d dedome the Yezl = 100-120k lux throw plus super useful XML beam width. That wd be a fine little package.

Then if you need more get an M24S or 2X and dedome them. That really gives them distance.

Bottom line – you’ve picked good lights to choose from – A60, Yezl, Maxtochs etc. All of them rate well in their config/price category. Going to come down to personal preference – no wrong answer.

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Badger4715 wrote:
First let me clarify- please forgive me if it sounded like I'm knocking the advice received on BLF. I definitely don't mean to disparage any suggestions- quite the opposite, I use this forum because there is probably no better place to go with a flashlight question. I went with the Yezl A. yes it was cheaper and B. Everything I've heard about has been very positive. I like it, it looks good, feels good and it does throw well-very well so I'm glad to have one in my collection. I've lurked around blf long enough to understand a few things about emitters, and emitter size paired with reflector size so don't get me wrong, I didn't expect a $25 or $30 xml light to stomp all over the A60. From what was said by other members and from what I learned with some research, I expected to see the Yezl perform somewhere NEAR the A60. I was not prepared to see it get trounced by it though. And yes, I ran both with a Tenergy L-ion rechargeable 18650. Price is not the issue- I could just buy two or 3 top-end lights and be done with it, but I just plain like flashlights and like having a variety to choose from. The problem is, I've got somewhere near 40 and I use maybe 2 or 3 on a regular basis so I'm getting to the point where I'm buying these lights and not using them which drives my wife insane. So it gets harder and harder to justify a $40-$60-$80 light. The Yezl is too fat for my duty-belt and is nothing spectacular so it will most likely sit with the rest of them. Time to start softening her up for the next one. ...

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Gj wrote:

Badger4715 wrote:
First let me clarify- please forgive me if it sounded like I’m knocking the advice received on BLF. I definitely don’t mean to disparage any suggestions- quite the opposite, I use this forum because there is probably no better place to go with a flashlight question. I went with the Yezl A. yes it was cheaper and B. Everything I’ve heard about has been very positive. I like it, it looks good, feels good and it does throw well-very well so I’m glad to have one in my collection. I’ve lurked around blf long enough to understand a few things about emitters, and emitter size paired with reflector size so don’t get me wrong, I didn’t expect a $25 or $30 xml light to stomp all over the A60. From what was said by other members and from what I learned with some research, I expected to see the Yezl perform somewhere NEAR the A60. I was not prepared to see it get trounced by it though. And yes, I ran both with a Tenergy L-ion rechargeable 18650. Price is not the issue- I could just buy two or 3 top-end lights and be done with it, but I just plain like flashlights and like having a variety to choose from. The problem is, I’ve got somewhere near 40 and I use maybe 2 or 3 on a regular basis so I’m getting to the point where I’m buying these lights and not using them which drives my wife insane. So it gets harder and harder to justify a $40-$60-$80 light. The Yezl is too fat for my duty-belt and is nothing spectacular so it will most likely sit with the rest of them. Time to start softening her up for the next one. …

Big plus right there. Laughing Find out how many pairs of shoes she owns. Surprised

Haha you wouldn’t even begin to believe how many…. I’d take a picture and show you but I don’t think my phone has that much memory lol. And unfortunately where I always get tripped up is the typical woman’s ideology that if it doesn’t interest them or if they don’t understand, it automatically becomes “stupid” and no amount of reasoning can crack that nut.

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Rusty Joe wrote:
Well, let’s be clear about something; the YEZL Y3 and A60 have different beam profiles and throwier for one isn’t the same as throwier for the other, but it’s the same with the XR-E vs a laser. A laser-pointer will reach about 4 miles or longer under the right conditions, but that doesn’t make the laser a better illuminator or “thrower” light—same with the A60 vs Yezl, much less the higher-end lights like the Maxtoch throwers.

When I take out my Forest Tiger 510 (side-switch version of the A60), it throws super tight and is really cool, but it doesn’t put more light down range than the Y3, HD2010, etc. It isn’t as useful a light as the XM-L(2) throwers. So I think it’s the beam profile that is working for you as opposed to actual throw.


Yeah, you might just be correct there. I hear the term ‘putting more light down range’ used quite a bit and though I understand the concept, I’m not sure that is the result I’m looking for. .. For example: I live on a golf course and I use a small white pump-house near the lake as a target for my lights. It is a little over 300 meters from my upstairs balcony. When I put the A60 on it, there is a definitive circle of light that ends up on the white wall. When I put the Yezl (or any other light I own) on it, Yes, there is a larger swath of the fairway lit up and yes, it will illuminate the building but it’s just kind of a loose pool of light at that point. If you were comparing ONLY the wall as the target, the A60 lights it up double maybe triple over the Yezl. So I guess you could say that at 300 meters the Yezl is reaching as far as the A60 and covering a larger area but with 3x less illumination. I can compare (and I have) every single light I own to my A60 and there is not a single one that will cover or drown out its hotspot when pointed at the same place on the wall. It is smaller and brighter than every single one. That includes a TF X6, Yezl Y3, UF960L, Smallsun zy-t08, and SmallSun zy-T13 to name a few. I’d be curious to know what this A60 is actually putting out. I don’t know maybe I’m just looking for something that doesn’t exist.?
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Badger4715 wrote:
Rusty Joe wrote:
Well, let’s be clear about something; the YEZL Y3 and A60 have different beam profiles and throwier for one isn’t the same as throwier for the other, but it’s the same with the XR-E vs a laser. A laser-pointer will reach about 4 miles or longer under the right conditions, but that doesn’t make the laser a better illuminator or “thrower” light—same with the A60 vs Yezl, much less the higher-end lights like the Maxtoch throwers.

When I take out my Forest Tiger 510 (side-switch version of the A60), it throws super tight and is really cool, but it doesn’t put more light down range than the Y3, HD2010, etc. It isn’t as useful a light as the XM-L(2) throwers. So I think it’s the beam profile that is working for you as opposed to actual throw.


Yeah, you might just be correct there. I hear the term ‘putting more light down range’ used quite a bit and though I understand the concept, I’m not sure that is the result I’m looking for. .. For example: I live on a golf course and I use a small white pump-house near the lake as a target for my lights. It is a little over 300 meters from my upstairs balcony. When I put the A60 on it, there is a definitive circle of light that ends up on the white wall. When I put the Yezl (or any other light I own) on it, Yes, there is a larger swath of the fairway lit up and yes, it will illuminate the building but it’s just kind of a loose pool of light at that point. If you were comparing ONLY the wall as the target, the A60 lights it up double maybe triple over the Yezl. So I guess you could say that at 300 meters the Yezl is reaching as far as the A60 and covering a larger area but with 3x less illumination. I can compare (and I have) every single light I own to my A60 and there is not a single one that will cover or drown out its hotspot when pointed at the same place on the wall. It is smaller and brighter than every single one. That includes a TF X6, Yezl Y3, UF960L, Smallsun zy-t08, and SmallSun zy-T13 to name a few. I’d be curious to know what this A60 is actually putting out. I don’t know maybe I’m just looking for something that doesn’t exist.?

Having experimented extensively with throwers, I’d say this is the case. And it is also the case that more light thrown out to the horizon means more glare and less focus, which you seem to not like. I, too, like a solid focus, but when you start using your light, you get more picky on a select few features (simplicity, build quality, dependability, illuminating power, etc) as opposed to pleasing the optic senses. It is likewise true that after a lot more time using the A60, you will grow on the other lights you have. I tend to be more sold on my namebrand lights now as opposed to the budget brands. Grab yourself an Olight SR51 or 52 and I think the throw and brightness – together with simplicity and user-friendly dependability – will grow on you. But tonight, I am taking out my Maxtoch 2X shooter. 122,000 kcd at 6 meters. Puts a smile on my face every trip. Smile

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Say once again. A60 “pencile” beam is like the 7 blindmen seeing the elephant. All 7 have differing account of the elephant. Another example is shining a tunnel. All A60 sees is empty space while Yezl, for example, sees the face of the tunnel.

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Haha you see it that way but I see it as: Is that a person over there 300m.away? A60=yes, definitely is. Yezl= Um, it could be. Or it could be a bush. Its too dark to tell..

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You’re obviously a pencil beam fan (and that’s cool ) and its also clear you got a very bright wee A60. Who knows – could well be 80kcd? My A60 is not close to a stock M24 over 300m.

If you’re after increased brightness on target within a $75 budget you could try an M24 or better still a 2X and get someone to dedome it. But it will still be a wider spill XML2 beam profile. Good hotspot but still wider spill – designed specifically to be long distance spotlights. We have a test we use for long distance throwers and in clear NZ mountain conditions, well away from ambient light, the dedomed M24 and 2X quite strongly light up a cream house on the farm on which we shoot at 1002 meters (1100 yards). This a combination of their extreme throw (179kcd/850m and 256kcd/1000m respectively) plus a degree of reflectance from the house. Doors/windows easily visible through scope.

But…if you are after a single, small, distinct hotspot contrasting strongly with unlit zones beside it then perhaps save some pennies and grab a Dereelight X-Searcher. Or get someone to hot up your A60.

Rusty – give some thought to having yr 2X dedomed. Mine jumped 110% to 256k lux – stumping throw at no extra cost. Does change beam tint though to more lemony halogen tint which may not appeal. Even stock the 2x Shooter is a beauty.

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Badger4715 wrote:
… Is that a person over there 300m.away? A60=yes, definitely is. Yezl= Um, it could be. Or it could be a bush. Its too dark to tell..
Even if A60 sees it, it won’t recognize what it is. Remember pencil beam, blind men and elephant? Anyway you don’t see a thing 300m away. 300m is a lot of distance. Try running flat out for 20 secs and measure the distance. That will be 100m if you are a good runner. Olympic 100m record is just shade off 10sec.
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It is big difference in declared ansi max distance and usable distance.

Manufacturers are really not thinking about that... Throw xxx m/yds according to ansi standard.

I would add new standard: UD (usable distance) at which we can clearly identify target.

But there are other factors like full moon, highly reflective surfaces like snow that almost slices at half your lux/kcd etc.

Stock A60 will throw 150 yds of ud in very dark nights and 100 yds at bright nights(moon, stars).

You need at least 200 kcd in your light to always clearly identify your target up to 250 yds in almost all night conditions.

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I’ve recently switched from a single 18650 battery to two rechargeable 3.7 V cr123’s in my a60 and my subjektive impression is that this makes the a60 throw a bit longer.
The a60 is clearly outthrown by my Solarforce M9 with two 18650’s or 4 cr123’s.
However the M9 without the extension tube barely outthrows the a60.
Anyhow I prefer to carry the a60 in my pocket during dog walks at night since the reflector house of the M9 is rather bulky.
As for now I’m waiting for the arrival of a Thrunite TN32 which will outthrow most flashlights with a few exceptions.

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Another budget flashlight, the Suterfire c10 matches the Jacob a60 in throw. I have both and have tested them against each other.
http://www.laserpointerpro.com/suterfire-c10-cree-xml-t6-led-950lm-5-mod...

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Luxmeters do lie a bit, the very cool white XR-E  (7000K?) reads 7% too high by my cheap luxmeter, compared to a 'normal' cool white xpg or xml (6000K).

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Also if you were to measure the A60 and the Suterfire? C10 mentioned couple of posts above at 5-10m you’d record a big difference in throw capability. A60 will read alot higher lux than a small reflector (45mm head) XML. This is C8 size and my C8s running XMLs and 44mm heads have read from 15-32kcd. A60 = 50-60kcd.

It would be nice to know how to adjust lux readings to different colour tint. From very CW to dedomed lemon tint is a big colour tint variation, whereas the machine may be calibrated to say 4000 or so. A +/- chart would be great – if possible.

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mudgripz wrote:
Also if you were to measure the A60 and the Suterfire? C10 mentioned couple of posts above at 5-10m you'd record a big difference in throw capability. A60 will read alot higher lux than a small reflector (45mm head) XML. This is C8 size and my C8s running XMLs and 44mm heads have read from 15-32kcd. A60 = 50-60kcd. It would be nice to know how to adjust lux readings to different colour tint. From very CW to dedomed lemon tint is a big colour tint variation, whereas the machine may be calibrated to say 4000 or so. A +/- chart would be great - if possible.

I'm afraid the adjustment will be different for every different luxmeter, it is all dependant on the characteristics of the colour filter before the sensor, for the widely used chinese luxmeters there are at least two, probably more, different types of colour filters out there.

Very expensive luxmeters read close to correct at every colour temperature.

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I just came back from a night walk with a floody XM-L C8 on low as the walking light and the A60, which never stops delighting me, as the game searchlight.

It has been two and a half years since I posted my first impressions of what was the first A60 in this community and I'm glad to see it's still holding strong among thrower fans.

I treated mine to a coated lens, more as a gesture of appreciation than for light gain.

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I think it all comes down to individual preference, as people have argued about "throwers" for as long as I have been on forums. Personally a good thrower is the one I can throw the farthest away from me.  Pencil beam throwers really don't have much of a practical use for me. It's more like being able to "throw the farthest" is the same as having the fastest or quickest car. It's always a controversy and that's why it really isn't good to recommend throwers, because no one agrees and I agree that the only thing that counts is how bright I see, not how bright a meter tells me. I don't carry a meter on a walk, I carry a flashlight and I determine how I like the light, by what I see, not by what a meter tells me.

Being able to determine the hair color of a human at 300 meters might be great, but I would rather wait till they get to 35 meters and blind them so bad they can't see anything at all, the heck with their hair color. Hence the love of massively bright floody lights. 

There will probably never be a led better than the XR-E as far as surface brightness and pencil style beam. At least I don't think so. Leds were never designed for flashlights in the first place. That market is just too small to mess with. XM-L throwers are terrible throwers. The beam is way too large on every one I have ever seen. A true thrower is a pencil beam, in my opinion and the A60 is the king for that.

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