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Tom E
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What batteries? It's basically a DD setup, so the batteries make a big difference. What amp reading are you getting across the switch? I'm not familiar with the KD big springs, but doing bypass's on the springs is the best way to go - any spring will never perform the same, even the best copper or copper alloy springs.

I found bypassing the diodes helped a little, not much. For one cell test, I bypassed it's diode and got maybe 0.1 more amps or so, noticeable on the meter, but not much. Maybe for all 4 cells it would be a bigger impact though.

I dunno how ceiling bounces really work as well - the BOSS1 has one intense center spot - one of the best I've seen, artifacts around the center spot are there, but not strong, no flowery pattern at all, just rings. It also has a very wide spill.

I've worked on 1-2 TK61's in the past, but don't have one now. Can you measure throw?

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I don’t care hereinafter, sorry Sad
freeme, please delete me from the list
thank you

wkhchin81
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I am using Palight’s CaroNite 5300mAh batteries, I also tried LG HE2 (RED), both produce very similar results. Probably the spring has high resistance.

I don’t know how to measure throw, but using TK61 flashes directly to the lux meter, I got 41500; whilst BOSS1 produces 33000. Both approx. 2.5 meters from the lux meter. (my lux meter is not calibrated one: Mastech )

CWK

freeme
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Done Wink. Don't have to be sorry. I prefer this way than see people regret getting it later. BOSS1 will requires some work in order to make it shine.

Kozy wrote:
I don't care hereinafter, sorry Sad freeme, please delete me from the list thank you


I find it is harder to get accurate Lux readings for tight beam profile such as XP-L Hi. Perhaps you want to tally it with Amp readings? Anyway, driver has to go if you want higher output.

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pilotdog68
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freeme wrote:
Anyway, driver has to go if you want higher output.

Exactly. Diodes in the power path and small traces are the biggest culprits here, I’m sure of it.

Try bypassing the driver completely, full direct drive.

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

Ouchyfoot
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Are you using flattop or button top cells? It seem that those + bumps on the driver board are set up for flat tops. How do button tops react when they encounter those bumps? I was thinking about creating a whole new board with a large copper disc soldered down for the cell contact, but then you are pretty much committed to button tops. It’ll have to be one or the other.

Tom E
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That's my plan is to first try DD. I got bronchitis, so it's been slowing me down, on antibiotics since yesterday, I'm home but don't have access to my workshop right now - mother-n-law up for the holidays and my shop/office is downstairs.

Those CaroNite cells are a total unknown but can't be high performance, actually might be pretty bad.

Update: started on the mods - will go with a XM-L2 U4 1C initially (later a de-domed XP-G2 S2 2B). Least this way I'll know what I can expect in max amps, hopefully not fry the LED. I'll be staying with the stock driver MCB for it's cell brass contacts. Board traces are all wide. I was suspect of the thru-holes in the grnd ring -- not many and small, but when I did amp tests, I jammed one of the DMM leads under the driver (MCU side) and didn't see any noticeable difference, so I'm thinking it's ok.

wkhchin81
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Just changed the switch to 6A and linked the contacts with 18 AWG wires, an increase output of approx. 10%.

Then tried LG HG2 (used in my M43), not fully charged, got even lower:(

And finally changed the 18× 7135 driver, get slightly higher at high mode than the stock driver, about 5%, but ceiling bounds still lower than TK61. This method is quite fair because I zoomed the whole light spots to get similar diameter for all flashlights I tested.

Warning: my big springs cause a stiffer screw-in and Ouch! My CaroNite batteries got scratches around the edge of the flat head…… will change the button to copper ring then….. Sh*t!

CWK

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Tom, your health is way more important. Get well first before you lay you magic fingers on BOSS1 again. There is no need to rush for this project actually. We will wait for your findings patiently Innocent. Don't forget to enjoy your holidays too!

Tom E wrote:

That's my plan is to first try DD. I got bronchitis, so it's been slowing me down, on antibiotics since yesterday, I'm home but don't have access to my workshop right now - mother-n-law up for the holidays and my shop/office is downstairs.

Those CaroNite cells are a total unknown but can't be high performance, actually might be pretty bad.

Update: started on the mods - will go with a XM-L2 U4 1C initially (later a de-domed XP-G2 S2 2B). Least this way I'll know what I can expect in max amps, hopefully not fry the LED. I'll be staying with the stock driver MCB for it's cell brass contacts. Board traces are all wide. I was suspect of the thru-holes in the grnd ring -- not many and small, but when I did amp tests, I jammed one of the DMM leads under the driver (MCU side) and didn't see any noticeable difference, so I'm thinking it's ok.

©freemex1thedeals.com

Tom E
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OK, thanks freeme - just got your advice, but sorry to say it's too late Smile.

The light is a wide hold for sure, and awkward. The pic with the Coke can shows the body of the light to be 8.3% wider, but in real life measured, it's 9.75% wider Smile. It's the only light I'm thinking of leaving the handle on - SRK size lights make no sense to have a handle on it, but this one does for sure. On the handle, it feels well balanced. The handle is better than I thought it would be - it does have a cheap looking rubber covering, but it feels pretty darn good - nice and soft but rigged and balanced.

There's a few things I did:

  • XM-L2 U4 1C/20 mm Noctigon - nice fit, sanded down the 20 mm shelf center under the MCPCB to 1000 GRIT paper (smoothed out machined rings), GC Extreme under the MCPCB
  • 20 AWG LED wires - not the min size, little longer, shorter than stock 22 AWG wires though
  • removed the 5 diodes, replaced with 20 AWG Teflon coated wires (on furthest away pads, ran a longer wire)
  • wired 'LED-' wire to a direct ground pad (no driver, true DD)

Did not bypass springs or mod the tail PCB at all - left as-is stock. Did not secure or add thermal grease for the pill top/shelf, also left as-is.

Amps: 5.15A across the switch

lumens: 1870 @start, 1812 @30 secs

throw: 296 kcd, measured at 5m (pretty solid reading, not even noticeable drop over 20-40 secs or so)

This is pretty darn good for not even bypassing the springs or adding jumpers on the tail PCB. One EFEST 26650 4200 cell measured 5.05A direct on the driver, so I think 4 of those cells in parallel help.

I'd say a FET DD driver should work out pretty well in here. I don't think the driver board traces are hurting much, but more could be done to reduce resistance.

For the lumens measurement, for me it's expected, since I measured just over 1900 lumens in a recent Yezl Y3 mod with a 5.30A tail reading, plus a UCLp lens. Possible I could measure 2000 in this light with a UCLp in there, with the springs bypassed. UCLp's have been giving me at least 5.0% gains, maybe up to 7%. For kcd, a 5% bump in lumens could be a 10% bump in kcd - it seems to be always higher, I've seen double many times.

So, lots of possibilities with this light. My raw kcd measurement could be 5-10% low (possible) because the shorter distance of 5 meters. A de-domed XM-L2 U4 1C could hit a min of 600 kcd, maybe much higher. I saw Racer86 reported a ~250 kcd on a TK61 mod with dome, higher amps but on a U2 XM-L2. I think this light has more potential than a TK61.

More pics for the mods:

Stock light beamshot on ceiling:

Stock LED and wires (22 AWG). The scratch across the plate is my doing - tool slipped when prying it off. A coupe of taps on a hammer to the edge of the MCPCB loosened it up good, the screw driver type tool to pry it up.

 

Retaining ring, and 'filler' ring below the driver:

Stock driver:

Closer look at the rings:

One thread shown here - I'd consider this almost fragile, careful not to mangle them. I'm afraid it would not last over many uses, hopefuly you don't need many though:

You can see the trace routes here. Must be a simple 2 layer board, like our OSHPark drivers:

Before sanding:

After sanding:

Diodes removed:

LED re-flowed and mounted:

22 AWG Teflon jumpers added:

 

 

DB Custom
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So, what’s the main biggest difference? Going direct drive and bypassing the driver? If you put the emitters ground lead back into the driver circuit after your mods, what do you get?

Seriously, a light like this only needs one mode, you don’t use it read the road map in the front seat of the car, right? Not a thing wrong with true direct drive.

So the cat is out of the bag, pop a dome on an XP-G2 S2 0D and let’s see what the K’s game is! :bigsmile:

Tom E
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This type of thrower with the heat sync'ing might just be a perfect candidate for no driver.

I'm debating - I got wight 044 drivers on the OSHPark queue, which Mitko has had great results with on XP-G2's de-domed.

I got like 8 XP-G2 S2 2B's left. One came out really well de-domed in a Convoy C8, at 5.01 amps on a 30Q @4.22v. I didn't order the UCLp yet - think Chris would cut me one at 90 mm, just have to confirm the size.

DB Custom
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I got my SR-90 UCLp from Chris, think it was in stock, looks to be about 94mm measuring from the outside, 91mm in the clear showing through the bezel.

Edit, yep stock lens at 96mm, I cut it down to fit the SR-90 using a belt sander. $12.25 and worth every penny.

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Those are really nice numbers for a domed emitter and original lens. I’m looking forward to more results!

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

Tom E
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Chris just sent me 3 UCLp custom cut sizes for the Convoy L2, UranusFire 818, and a Roche LS01. The Roche Ls01 has an XHP-70, zener mod FET driver, and got a 5.5% gain in lumens, where it supposedly had an AR lens in it. And the 5.5% is at least that, because I did before/after on the same cells and on a 10A drain, HE2 button tops can get knocked down in a few seconds.

eebowler
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Hi Tom, just to confirm, the ‘pill’ overlaps with the body by about 2mm? Does the sides of the pill contact the body as well or is just resting on the shelf? Thanks for the preview Smile

EDIT: freeme, I had initial ideas of using this light as a host for an MTG or XHP70 LED or even a tripple XHP50 but the shelf design has me hesitant. As a single XML XPL thrower, even DD, it seems sufficient though.

My gratitude to those who are willing and able to help others (in whatever way you can)! Being human is more than just existing for yourself. Smile

Tom E
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Well, I'd call it a plate, shelf, or pill top, not pill. Where the shelf overlaps the body, the shelf is 2.0 mm thick, but the overlap is about 4-6 mm I'm guessing - it's assembled right now. Not sure if maybe CWK mentioned that dimension earlier? Maybe not.

Post #111, first pic, shows the lip the LED shelf rests on - looks pretty wide in the pic. One could easily drill/tap holes there for setting screws, for example, or could just coat with thin layer of thermal grease.

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can wrote:
It’s just bronchitis, he will live.
Get that light hopped up.
I can’t wait any longer.

Hahahaha Big Smile you made me laugh, will have to put this into my sig Silly

 

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exactly, you dont need lungs to mod a flashlight Big Smile
Hope you get well soon!

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Almost 300kcd with a domed XM-L2 and uncoated glass? Shocked Shocked

And yeah this light doesn’t need modes, with 4 26650 that’s 20Ah of capacity, enough to run 4 hours straight at turbo! If one needs lower modes while carrying this monster, just switch to a smaller flashlight.

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Tom E wrote:

Well, I’d call it a plate, shelf, or pill top, not pill. Where the shelf overlaps the body, the shelf is 2.0 mm thick, but the overlap is about 4-6 mm I’m guessing – it’s assembled right now. Not sure if maybe CWK mentioned that dimension earlier? Maybe not.


Post #111, first pic, shows the lip the LED shelf rests on – looks pretty wide in the pic. One could easily drill/tap holes there for setting screws, for example, or could just coat with thin layer of thermal grease.

Yes, I’m thinking thermal grease is the ‘only’ option for us peeps without tools. Whenever you can, if possible, can you check if a C8 reflector or better yet, three of them can fit in the head? Big Smile IS a triple with C8 reflectors possible? Thanks Smile

My gratitude to those who are willing and able to help others (in whatever way you can)! Being human is more than just existing for yourself. Smile

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eebowler wrote:
Whenever you can, if possible, can you check if a C8 reflector or better yet, three of them can fit in the head? Big Smile IS a triple with C8 reflectors possible? Thanks Smile

hmmm

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

Tom E
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eebowler wrote:
Yes, I'm thinking thermal grease is the 'only' option for us peeps without tools. Whenever you can, if possible, can you check if a C8 reflector or better yet, three of them can fit in the head? Big Smile IS a triple with C8 reflectors possible? Thanks :)

Well, post #108 has all the dimensions you need - plenty of depth, for width you'd have to figure whether an 89.7 mm diam reflector has the space for 3 C8's. You'll have a lot of vertical space to plug up. If it does, it's close. A Shocker is effectively 3 C8's reflectors, and all focused to boot.

Tom E
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Spring bypass's: added 22 AWG bypass's on all 5, including the center. Actually the center one is pretty cool for running on one 26650 cell only.

Now I got 5.0A on one cell in the center (measured across he switch), and 5.36A with all 4 cells @4.17v. Throw is now measured @5m for 308 kcd, again an XM-L2 U4 1C with dome.

Tried hot dedoming a XP-G2 -- no luck Frown. Got one in the gas for 1.5 hrs so far - will take a while.

wkhchin81
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Thank you guys.
After bypassing the Diodes & using the CaroNite cells only; now is 10% brighter than TK61, throw also 10% higher.

Yes, the reflector has high potential.
(Note: Due to limited type of gaskets I have, the XP-L gasket is protruded out from the reflector base, this limits the light to the reflector base yet it throws about the same as TK61.)

Some figures:
~2m distance:
TK61 read at 40000 lux
BOSS 1 read at 44000 lux

~5m distance:
TK61 read at 6500 lux (uneven density where the centre is far higher)
BOSS 1 read at 7100 lux (visually the hot spot is more even than TK61)

ceiling bounds:
TK61 read at 115 lux (at start, then drop to 107 lux)
BOSS 1 read at 126 lux (at start, then drop to 119 lux after 15 sec.)

CWK

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Tom E wrote:

Tried hot dedoming a XP-G2 — no luck Frown. Got one in the gas for 1.5 hrs so far - will take a while.

try acetone, I found it work faster than gas
BTW, would 4,35 cells make a difference?

Tom E
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How quickly does the body of the light get warm or hot?

Well, you mean it supposed to get hot? Smile Haven't felt a tingling of warmth yet, but haven't run it much. After 30 secs, nothing... I'll do a longer test to see.

Do you think it would blow the emitter if left on high? No - believe if the LED is seeing 5.35A, it should live fine, not sure 100% - djozz's tests/threads may say, but I believe over 5.5A is the danger zone for the new XM-L2's (U3, U4).

If the flashlight body gets warm as fast as similar size lights then maybe the heat path from the "pill" to the body is fine. Well, don't have any lights this size to compare with. This is a big light in terms of dimensions and weight. My max modded Shockers that did 6A would get hot in the critical area of the pill, but that's a smaller light and had a lot more amps and heat.

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Just did a bit of math Shocked
First some assumptions, body shelf inner diameter = 70mm, 5mm overlap so emitter shelf = 80mm
80mm circle = 5026 square mm, 70mm = 3848mm, contact area is 5026 – 3848 = 1178 square mm
A 38.74mm dia circle is 1178.2square mm.

What that means is the heat path is the same as a 38mm dia light, and I have an xm-l2 t6 at 6A using less transfer area than that :bigsmile:

Cheers David

Nothing to see here folks, move along...

Tom E
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Ok, tried this:

Results:  somewhat disappointing

4.2A tail reading, 547 kcd

This is a XP-G2 S2 2B de-domed, from an old batch at FastTech. Counting on the twisting of the XP-G2 to self-center in the XML size centering piece. Beam pattern didn't look too bad. As shown above, the centering piece was sanded on the top from 2.09 mm down to 1.76 mm. Didn't fiddle with any focusing, the hot spot looks pretty good, but there is some surrounding artifacts, but it looked well centered.

I didn't expect much with the 4.2A reading - not sure why it's so low. Was expecting over 5A. The tint looks good, the dedome seemed to go perfect, just a little silicone left around one bond wire. I got a dedomed V6 1A to try - might give it a shot.

Tom E
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can wrote:
Great work Tom E, sounds like you are having fun. Overall how many stars would you give this light?

Still need more time, but here's some notes on it so far:

Well it's one-of-a-kind. Not sure, maybe the largest stock light reflector? Certainly under $100 there is no comparison I would think. There's a bunch or pros/cons. It's certainly moddable, which is great.

If I can't get high performance from an XP-G2, it will be a downer, but if I can get a nice wide beam (well not really wide) from a dedomed XM-L2 or XP-L, I'd be happy, and should hit 600-700 kcd without crazy focusing. I was hoping for like 800 kcd, and still think it's possible, and that someone can achieve it, if this group buy can/will happen.

If the group buy happens for $50 or so, it's a steal to get this kind of size/power. Mechanically, I'm maybe most concerned about the driver retaining ring - I think it can fall apart being so thin, frail. I think the shelf is not such a downer. The wire clearances are always a challenge with this type of reflector design (way too wide bottom). I don't think the driver is that bad as well - it doesn't seem to have bad loss's with mods, least what I seen with the XM-L2 -- it basically hit the max of 5.35A.

I'm thinking/hoping the 4.2A on the XP-G2 is not all the light - something goin on with the LED, but can't be sure at this point.

You could argue for the excessive size/weight, but it's a big reflector budget light with 4 26650 cells -- so what do you expect?

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