Sunwayman T25C, 18650 zoomie (edit july4th: mod in post#4)

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djozz
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Sunwayman T25C, 18650 zoomie (edit july4th: mod in post#4)

For now a first impression.

I bought this light a bit too quick in a Gearbest deal less than two weeks ago and it arrived today. I already have a line-up of these type zoomies and after I read what was available on this flashlight on CPF (not that much and certainly not a breakdown), it did not seem anything special. The one thing I am curious about is the lens quality, would it be better than the average Uniquefire lens? It is glass and uncoated, in fact the dimensions are exact the lens of the UF-T20.
Here’s all my 100+ kcd aspherical throwers together:

Here’s the breakdown, nothing surprising here, it is build like any of the other zoomies above, except it has a forward clicky what I don’t like, and a 22mm driver that I have no direct replacement for. On the bright side, it seems all moddable to me.

Question is: am I going to sacrifice my very last old style XP-G2 S4 2B on this light???

To be continued sometime.

Edit july 4th, I modded the light, post #4

Edited by: djozz on 07/04/2016 - 16:42
Sullysat
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I read this thread because I’m trying to figure out where Sunwayman “fits” in the quality/cost spectrum… still working on that.

The big takeaway here is that you got a GearBest order in two weeks! I can’t imagine what that’s like.

What an inspiration!

djozz
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Sullysat wrote:
I read this thread because I’m trying to figure out where Sunwayman “fits” in the quality/cost spectrum… still working on that.

Exactly, I do not see the 60 dollar price-tag yet, when compared to the Uniquefires (the GB deal was 30 btw) , the T20 is equally well build, and with a brass standard C8 pill, so way more versatile. Although on first looks it looks as it came from the same source as the one from the T20, my hopes are on the lens quality, but I’m not optimistic..
djozz
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I did the mod, sacrified my very last (the last in the world?) old-batch XP-G2 S4 2B led. Luckily the (hot) dedome went good, just a tiny bit of phosfor chipped off on the edge, for my doing very ok. To optimally use this led the driver had to become low resistance direct drive. It was 22mm diameter, so I populated a wight 22mm BLF-FET+7135 board with the components from a BLF-A6 driver from Banggood, and unlike what my usual experience is with such operations, the driver works perfectly fine.

 

left the stock driver and led, right the new ones.

The pill can accomodate a 20mm board, but all I had was a 16mm XP-board. But the shelf on the pill is 4mm so there's enough aluminium to heatsink the board well. And the board screws down with two screws (had to sand two new flat bits on the side of the 16mm board, 90degrees from the indentations). I left out the 'reflector' that was screwed in the pill in stock form.

I dislike forward clickies, so I changed it for a standard small Omten reverse clicky on a PD68 tailboard, it all fits like a charm.

So although this light may not be revolutionary, apart from the 22mm driver diameter, it mods fine.

The finished light:

The BLF-A6 driver has a nice low moonlight that could be used to inspect the lens, and it appears that Sunwayman did not bother using an optical grade lens, there are ringy artifacts on the surface as you can see below. On the other hand, the lens that is in my Uniquefire UF-T20 was much worse. To complete the story: the plastic lens in my Brinyte B158 shows no artifacts at all, it looks like a pretty perfect lens.

left the SWM T25C lens, right the Uniquefire T20 lens (illumination was a bit different but you can still see the difference in lens artifacts)

 

And indeed, the hotspot (@7meter) looks a lot better than that of my UF-T20, with the dots on the die (and the chipped off phosfor-bit undecided ) clearly visible:

My (more than 3 years old old-timer) UF-T20 with its dedomed XP-G2 R4 3C on a 2.95A Qlite driver does 108kcd. Will this one at least have a better score?

Luckily it does, with a charged Samsung 30Q, 30 seconds after switch-on, the current was 4.30A, the throw 181 kcd. Not bad for a glass lens. I'm happy that I spent the S4 2B on this flashlight, it has become very nice Smile

MRsDNF
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You bought this light a bit to quick? I’ve heard it all now. If I told my wife that I’d be kicked out. Smile
So its not the same lens as the UF-T20 though it looks the same. I wonder if it is the same but they all just vary by a certain amount?

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

                      "My man mousehole needs one too"

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

djozz
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MRsDNF wrote:
You bought this light a bit to quick? I’ve heard it all now. If I told my wife that I’d be kicked out. Smile
So its not the same lens as the UF-T20 though it looks the same. I wonder if it is the same but they all just vary by a certain amount?

Yeah, ok, you’re right, I’m happy with it now Wink
But 40 dollars more than a UF-T20 and all you get is a worse moddable light with a slightly better lens? For the 30 dollar GB deal I think it was worth it.

And indeed, as luminarium i. has already described, there is a huge variation in UF-T20 lenses, this could just be one of them.

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Hmmm? I’m going back and forth. Should I pull the trigger or should I stand down? There is a coupon code available right now. But at the price of the b158, it seems the b158 has better quality. Idk?

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PPDB22 wrote:
Hmmm? I’m going back and forth. Should I pull the trigger or should I stand down? There is a coupon code available right now. But at the price of the b158, it seems the b158 has better quality. Idk?

You get more light for your money with the Brinyte, better throw and more versatile, but also literally: with battery, the Brinyte weighs 305gram, the SWM 217gram (despite the glass lens). The Brinyte is way chunkier than the SWM, which is even slightly smaller than the UF-T20.
So it depends on how compact you want it to be.

One thing that I think is troublesome with the Brinyte is that I feel that at all times I should be careful not to scratch the lens, while these uncoated glass lens flashlights can be thrown around, carried in pockets together with key chains etc, it will not affect the performance.

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That’s a good point. As I’ve been building lights, word has gotten around and I have been given some “business”. It’s not much, but it means something as it is the first sign or productiveness since I became ill seven years ago. It’s just a couple lights, but in my mind I am playing imagination as if I am the owner of a successful corporation. Anyway… There is a group of coyote hunters that have my number. I’ve never used lights for hunting so I have no idea as to what is practically needed. The T-20 with Cree 660 red is what I’ve been offering. However, Richard has run out of that host so I ordered a b158. You are right, it is much bulkier, but the finish of the light is much nicer. Hmmm… I might just try this T25C. I need to decide before the coupon is no longer valid. You never know with these coupons. They can be offered for weeks and then when I decide to go for it, nope. Smile

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I went ahead and ordered one. Thanks for the help!

By chance have you directly compared the t25c lens to the t-20 lens? By swapping out the lens and testing the lux with each.

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I have not directly tested it but you can do some calculation on it to get a feeling.

You can (roughly) predict what the S4 2B would have done in the UF-T20, an S5 compared to a R4 is 32% more light, so at 3A you expect 143kcd, at 4.3A that is 1.23 times more, =176kcd, which is very close to 181.

Not much you can say if it is that close, at higher current there is more heat sag so if both leds are in the middle of their bin, if the output effect of a dedome of a this 2B bin led has been the same as this 3C bin led, the T25C does indeed a bit better.

hank
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Coupon code mentioned by LightRider in the Deals thread now, T25C for about $20
Sounds — hey, lottery! — like there’s some chance of a good lens.
Here’s hoping they’ll be pulling and shipping a random sample from a good lot, and this is a chance of getting a good one.

Hm, “38mm lens” — would the tall one from DX work? http://www.dx.com/p/38mm-diameter-glass-lens-for-flashlight-19-5mm-high-...

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hank wrote:
Coupon code mentioned by LightRider in the Deals thread now, T25C for about $20
Sounds — hey, lottery! — like there’s some chance of a good lens.
Here’s hoping they’ll be pulling and shipping a random sample from a good lot, and this is a chance of getting a good one.

Hm, “38mm lens” — would the tall one from DX work? http://www.dx.com/p/38mm-diameter-glass-lens-for-flashlight-19-5mm-high-...


The chance is not good that it is any better than the t25a one. Jerommel reviewed that lens on dx and said it was ok but not great.
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Bumping this. How did you disassemble the head? Have a driver and xhp50 I want to stuff in there.

hank
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How did you disassemble the head?

You have to get inside the front with a pair of very pointy needlenose pliers spread wide, and unscrew a retaining ring that holds the lens in place.
Look for four little half-circle notches in the black ring around the lens.

Then there’s one of those wide flat retaining rings with a center hole for the LED and 2 holes for the needlenose to unscrew, to get to the emitter.

staticx57
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hank wrote:
Quote:
How did you disassemble the head?

You have to get inside the front with a pair of very pointy needlenose pliers spread wide, and unscrew a retaining ring that holds the lens in place.
Look for four little half-circle notches in the black ring around the lens.

Then there’s one of those wide flat retaining rings with a center hole for the LED and 2 holes for the needlenose to unscrew, to get to the emitter.

Thanks! I did send up finding this info elsewhere but good to have the info in multiple places as you never know what people might search for. In my case that retaining ring for the LED to the pill was glued so this should be a consideration

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hank wrote:
Coupon code mentioned by LightRider in the "Deals thread ":http://budgetlightforum.com/node/20853?page=38#newright now, T25C for about $20 Sounds -- hey, lottery! -- like there's some chance of a good lens. Here's hoping they'll be pulling and shipping a random sample from a good lot, and this is a chance of getting a good one. Hm, "38mm lens" -- would the tall one from DX work? http://www.dx.com/p/38mm-diameter-glass-lens-for-flashlight-19-5mm-high-279837  

Somehow I missed this thread/mini review. The code is still good - a T25C for $20, posted here: http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1000411#comment-1000411, using code: LEDFLA.

Product listed here: http://www.gearbest.com/led-flashlights/pp_333584.html?wid=21

 

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Thick lens, wow! Glasses

Yesterday I ordered this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/high-transmittance-led-Convex-lens-34MM-high-21mm-optical-glass-lens-power-LED-Condenser-lens/807919726.html

It certainly looks to be of seemingful tier. Hope to see “some” throw out of it with an XHP70 beneath. 

 

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Barkuti wrote:

Thick lens, wow! Glasses


Yesterday I ordered this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/high-transmittance-led-Convex-lens-34MM-high-21mm-optical-glass-lens-power-LED-Condenser-lens/807919726.html


It certainly looks to be of seemingful tier. Hope to see “some” throw out of it with an XHP70 beneath. 


 


Cheers Party


The lens you linked is molded, like any of the lenses used in flashlights and that are sold by the usual chinese vendors, do not not necessarily expect a better performance than the stock lens.

The glass lenses used in flahslights are all manufactured as condensor lenses, which do not need high optical performance so a cheap molded lens is good enough. However, in flashlights they are used as projection lenses, for that application the optical quality does matter. An optical grade aspheric lens which is ground to shape does improve performance, but they are much more expensive and can not be found for cheap at aliexpress or ebay. You can find them for a considerable price at optics sellers like Edmund, Thorlabs and such.

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No worries djozz, I said “some”. With such a wide projection lens, effective throw may not even reach to that of an XM-L driven a 7-8W under an aspheric, though it should provide 4x+ light corridor surface, which certainly may be nice for certain applications. Should make a pleasant uniform light distribution flooder. Smile

 

Cheers Party

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djozz wrote:
Barkuti wrote:

Thick lens, wow! Glasses


Yesterday I ordered this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/high-transmittance-led-Convex-lens-34MM-high-21mm-optical-glass-lens-power-LED-Condenser-lens/807919726.html


It certainly looks to be of seemingful tier. Hope to see “some” throw out of it with an XHP70 beneath. 


 


Cheers Party


The lens you linked is molded, like any of the lenses used in flashlights and that are sold by the usual chinese vendors, do not not necessarily expect a better performance than the stock lens.

The glass lenses used in flahslights are all manufactured as condensor lenses, which do not need high optical performance so a cheap molded lens is good enough. However, in flashlights they are used as projection lenses, for that application the optical quality does matter. An optical grade aspheric lens which is ground to shape does improve performance, but they are much more expensive and can not be found for cheap at aliexpress or ebay. You can find them for a considerable price at optics sellers like Edmund, Thorlabs and such.

Yeah, Edmund’s prices are crazy.

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Got mine in. Really nice! Measured 864 lumens (@30s), 43 kcd (taken at 5m) stock - really good #'s for a stock zoomie of this size, and about matches what they claimed in lumens of 880.

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I posted this in this thread: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/49830, but I got mine in from GearBest as noted above, but can't budge the lens retaining ring - using a lot of force with appropriate sized needlenose, all in the CCW (normal) direction. Nothing - not budging... Any ideas?

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Just looked at the T25C on GB, £32 or $40 & when you apply the codes it goes up to $53 ?

Ian

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bella-headlight wrote:
Just looked at the T25C on GB, £32 or $40 & when you apply the codes it goes up to $53 ?

Yes - reading what it says, LEDFLA coupon expired now, or could be I hit the 1 order limits per coupon.

Still need some advice on opening it up at the retaining ring of the lens.

Update: Got It open!

Weird, but I simply tried the other pair of notches in the bezel, off by 90 degrees, and it came off easy. Really weird...

On mine also, the reflector thing was glued on the threads, but hard to see it's there from the pics:

Here you can see the damage, but should be easy to touch up:

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Glad you got it open! I can’t remember if in mine there was any glue on that reflector-ish ring..

(the number to beat is 181 kcd! Evil )

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It's really a gorgeous zoomie. Just went for a walk past dusk - used my Skilhunt H15 w/Narsil w/nice NW - U3 3D, and a ThorFire BD04 with a dedomed XPL V6 0D, and both worked great, but ended up using the BD04 mostly running Biscotti, 3A. Love flood for the walking in front of you, immediately up ahead, then zoom out to look up the trails, plus the 5 modes worked out great. I'd prefer though a quality zoomie, easy slide like the BD04 but with an e-switch to run Narsil - best of both.

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So you’re not bothered by glare from the portholes in the bezel?

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hank wrote:
So you're not bothered by glare from the portholes in the bezel?

o, didn't notice it much. I got the light all apart now, gonna upgrade it.

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Barkuti wrote:

Hi!

Received the lens I mentioned above:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/high-transmittance-led-Convex-lens-34MM-high-21mm-optical-glass-lens-power-LED-Condenser-lens/807919726.html

Pic:

Smells quality, imho Thumbs Up

 

Cheers Party

Does it have the correct focal length for the T25C ? It looks like it would be a bit shorter. If it _throws_ 'quality' as well, I'm convinced Wink

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