Does this type of switch exist?

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Enderman
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Does this type of switch exist?

A switch that is like a momentary push button, but when you press down it will disconnect and reconnect the circuit almost instantly, and when released does nothing, just remains connected.

 

I can't seem to find a proper name to search for this kind of switch, if it even exists.

In other words it is an NC (normally closed) push button momentary switch, that disconnects and reconnects in a single push down action.

 

Usually to get this result you need to use a regular push button NC momentary switch, then press and release it quickly, and that does the same thing.

Thanks in advance Smile

PS- this is to create a mode-switching button on a flashlight who's driver has no mode switch, and only switches modes by shutting off and powering on the driver quickly.

Jerommel
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Do you mean a ‘non latching’ push button with a ‘COM’, a ‘NC’ and a ‘NO’?
I guess you only want to break the circuit when you push it down?

2Q19

Sonofspectrum
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For what kind of application?

It's moments of madness that keep us sane.

kramer5150
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Like a reverse momentary?… I cant think of any switch with some momentary action that does this.

Enderman
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Jerommel wrote:
Do you mean a ‘non latching’ push button with a ‘COM’, a ‘NC’ and a ‘NO’?
I guess you only want to break the circuit when you push it down?

Yes, it should break the circuit, but also reconnect it immediately, all with one push down.

Sonofspectrum wrote:
For what kind of application?

For rapidly switching a circuit off and on in a single press to switch modes on a LED driver.

If I use a regular momentary pushbutton switch then I need to push it down and let go quickly.
I want both the disconnect and reconnect to happen almost instantly so I only have to press the button down and not worry about releasing it quickly.

thijsco19
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I dont think that a switch like that exists. I’ve never heard of it.

kramer5150
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Enderman wrote:
Jerommel wrote:
Do you mean a ‘non latching’ push button with a ‘COM’, a ‘NC’ and a ‘NO’?
I guess you only want to break the circuit when you push it down?

Yes, it should break the circuit, but also reconnect it immediately, all with one push down.

Sonofspectrum wrote:
For what kind of application?

For rapidly switching a circuit off and on in a single press to switch modes on a LED driver.

If I use a regular momentary pushbutton switch then I need to push it down and let go quickly.
I want both the disconnect and reconnect to happen almost instantly so I only have to press the button down and not worry about releasing it quickly.


My Fenix LD25 does that. When I push the button it turns on, as I continue to push it for a brief moment turns off, continuing to push it further turns it back on again and then it clicks permanently on.

I think its a bug in the driver and not the switch though.

Its a bezel twist UI though. Its does not use power cycles to change modes.

LightRider
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You mean like the hammer on a lever action pistol? The is in contact with firing pin. You pull the trigger and the hammer disengages as it pulls back then re engages to fire the gun. Well… not exactly but kind of.

If you did find something, it would have to be able to handle the full current.

Wouldn’t it be easier to add a regular non-latching push button switch. It would be called normally closed non-latching or momentary push button. These are available but not sure if they would fit a flashlight? If you wanted to go this route, you could a regular clicky switch and file off the tabs that make it latch. You would have to dissect the switch but it’s wouldn’t be difficult.

vwpieces
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That sounds like the switch used in the Thorfire VG-10. But I may be wrong.

You need to half press button several times to choose mode then full click it to remain there in that mode.

Normal 1288 (most common SW) you need to full click then half click to switch modes.

VG-10 style flashlight forward switch

LightRider
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vwpieces wrote:
That sounds like the switch used in the Thorfire VG-10. But I may be wrong.

You need to half press button several times to choose mode then full click it to remain there in that mode.

Normal 1288 (most common SW) you need to full click then half click to switch modes.

VG-10 style flashlight forward switch

!{width:50%}https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/UT8AByFXXxXXXagOFbXl/121130677/UT8AByFXXxXXXa...!

Na, don’t think that’s what op’s looking for? Some people have a hard time with the half press of a switch without clicking it. Especially the elderly. Adding an additional switch that interrupts power without clicking allows the user more grace when changing modes.

However, the op may have a totally different objective. OP?

Jerommel
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OP is looking for a switch that works like a piano key (kind of)
But in stead of making a little hammer hit the piano string it should break the circuit for a fraction of a second.
I don’t believe that exists though.
He will probably have to settle for a momentary push button with a ‘normally closed’ contact and just push it briefly (or ‘tap’ it) to switch modes.
I.m.o. you might as well put the reverse clicky there.

2Q19

Enderman
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Jerommel wrote:
OP is looking for a switch that works like a piano key (kind of)
But in stead of making a little hammer hit the piano string it should break the circuit for a fraction of a second.
I don’t believe that exists though.
He will probably have to settle for a momentary push button with a ‘normally closed’ contact and just push it briefly (or ‘tap’ it) to switch modes.
I.m.o. you might as well put the reverse clicky there.

Yeah you’re right, that seems like my only option other than having some weird custom switch made or using a circuit to control a relay…
Thanks everyone!
itsme5k
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Have you tried an SPDT push button with both outputs wired together (shorted)?
Never done this myself, but the time between disconnecting output one and connecting output two may be long enough to change modes.

A quick Google brings up products such as below.
Middle pin to driver, outer two shorted then to power.

- John

Watch this space...

SawMaster
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That might work as the two contacts aren’t always in perfect synch, but it would be an individual switch doing this well enough selected from a batch so you might need to try dozens of switches to get the right one. Or you could disassemble one and try to rework one side to ‘click’ earlier or later. Otherwise it will take an electronically delayed switching circuit to achieve this. Or maybe running one side through a relay would give enough delay?

Phil

Phlogiston
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itsme5k wrote:
Have you tried an SPDT push button with both outputs wired together (shorted)?

That’s what I was thinking – also known as a break-before-make single pole changeover (SPCO) switch. The break in power will be very short, though. Switch debouncing in the driver might cause it to be ignored.

Enderman
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itsme5k wrote:
Have you tried an SPDT push button with both outputs wired together (shorted)?
Never done this myself, but the time between disconnecting output one and connecting output two may be long enough to change modes.

A quick Google brings up products such as below.
Middle pin to driver, outer two shorted then to power.

!http://au.element14.com/productimages/standard/en_GB/2435241-40.jpg!


That’s a good idea, I might buy one and test it out.
Problem is that if it is momentary, pressing it will actuate once but releasing will actuate it a second time.
If it is not momentary, then it might work the way I need Smile
Jerommel
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That will briefly disconnect on releasing the button too, unless you get a latching one.

[edit] Yes, what he said. Smile

2Q19

dw911
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Some small DC manually re-settable circuit breakers do just what described you needed when u push the little round reset button.
Probably too big for your application though

Cousin Elmer
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In the (likely) event such a switch doesn’t exist have you considered replacing the driver? Fast off time switching is usually a desirable feature but there are drivers that have very slow mode switching. For example Armytek uses very slow off time mode switching in many of their lights. The DIY drivers I’m most familiar with all have fast off time switching but some of them could be programmed for much slower mode switching.

Enderman
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dw911 wrote:
Some small DC manually re-settable circuit breakers do just what described you needed when u push the little round reset button.
Probably too big for your application though

Thanks, I´ll look into it Smile
Size is not an issue, this isn´t a regular sized flashlight.

Cousin Elmer wrote:
In the (likely) event such a switch doesn’t exist have you considered replacing the driver? Fast off time switching is usually a desirable feature but there are drivers that have very slow mode switching. For example Armytek uses very slow off time mode switching in many of their lights. The DIY drivers I’m most familiar with all have fast off time switching but some of them could be programmed for much slower mode switching.

The driver is new, from mtn electronics and works great, so I´m not planning to replace it.
LightRider
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I ran into a similar need once. I was building an mot spotwelder and wanted a button that would engage and immediately disengage no matter how long the button was pressed.

I ended up using a two stage drill trigger and a capacitor on the relay. It kinda works;)

dw911
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Enderman wrote:
dw911 wrote:
Some small DC manually re-settable circuit breakers do just what described you needed when u push the little round reset button. Probably too big for your application though
Thanks, I´ll look into it Smile Size is not an issue, this isn´t a regular sized

Will probably do what you need then, the ones I had look like these, although the body was white and they looked slightly better constructed

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=12v+dc+circuit+breaker&client=ms-andro...ULM%252C_%253BVLSjZI9_rp_XMM%253A%252CGXq10qDG2E3VIM%252C_&usg=__Mj30BoQvg-AXya4kD7L5SqruJJ4%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwia0qCXpZLRAhUXMlAKHWwNDkwQ7AkISQ&biw=360&bih=615&dpr=3#imgrc=CwiKviwvyTJlqM%3A

The ones I had worked like you described, obviously can’t say for sure if they all do or just certain makes Smile

bulrush
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Don’t you mean a latching switch? You push it once and let go and it turns on, push it once and let go and it turns back off.

dw911
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I been thinking about this, if such a switch existed, how would you ever turn it off ?
Even what I linked will do what you want but won’t ever turn off, will only turn of if you short circuited it and it will pop out and wait to be reset.
Only thing that might work is one like I listed, but for a plane – you can twist to make it pop out to break the circuit/switch of the circuit – expensive though as most plane or marine stuff is.

Anyway as you got lots of space on what your building , why not just use a normal on/off switch then a N/C push button switch in series to activate the modes by momentarily pushing it as required ?

Joshk
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Flashlights only change mode like this to avoid needing to run a third wire to the tailcap. How do you plan to turn off a light like this?

Enderman
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bulrush wrote:
Don’t you mean a latching switch? You push it once and let go and it turns on, push it once and let go and it turns back off.

No, push down = disconnect and reconnect, release = do nothing

dw911 wrote:
I been thinking about this, if such a switch existed, how would you ever turn it off ?
Even what I linked will do what you want but won’t ever turn off, will only turn of if you short circuited it and it will pop out and wait to be reset.
Only thing that might work is one like I listed, but for a plane – you can twist to make it pop out to break the circuit/switch of the circuit – expensive though as most plane or marine stuff is.

Anyway as you got lots of space on what your building , why not just use a normal on/off switch then a N/C push button switch in series to activate the modes by momentarily pushing it as required ?

Joshk wrote:
Flashlights only change mode like this to avoid needing to run a third wire to the tailcap. How do you plan to turn off a light like this?

There would be a separate on/off switch in line with this switch. Total two switches, one simple on/off and one mode-changing switch.

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Enderman wrote:
There would be a separate on/off switch in line with this switch. Total two switches, one simple on/off and one mode-changing switch.

Isn’t this the functionality of any light with an e-switch?

Enderman
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Joshk wrote:
Enderman wrote:
There would be a separate on/off switch in line with this switch. Total two switches, one simple on/off and one mode-changing switch.

Isn’t this the functionality of any light with an e-switch?


Yes, exactly, but for a driver that does not have an e-switch.
Joshk
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So how do you change the press length? If the driver needs a short press to scroll through the different brightness levels, and a medium press to reverse into the hidden features, like strobe or battery check, how would you ever get into strobe?

Enderman
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Joshk wrote:
So how do you change the press length? If the driver needs a short press to scroll through the different brightness levels, and a medium press to reverse into the hidden features, like strobe or battery check, how would you ever get into strobe?

Uh, it only has 4 regular modes, nothing special.
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Maybe yours has functionality you haven’t discovered Big Smile
But mostly I was pointing out it’s not something anyone would buy. Well, maybe one person.

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