Camera light

29 posts / 0 new
Last post
Joshk
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 58 min ago
Joined: 09/09/2015 - 12:12
Posts: 992
Location: USA
Camera light

I plan to put a Nichia Triple on my (video) camera for lighting. I was thinking of wiring the 3 LEDs in series and driving them off 2 18650s in series. That’s 2.8v per LED when fully charged. That keeps the battery weight down and eliminates the driver. Of course, I am wondering if a driver would be worthwhile and fit good. Any suggestions? In other words, what am I going to wish I did?

Edited by: Joshk on 02/16/2017 - 17:26
Lexel
Lexel's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 10 min ago
Joined: 11/01/2016 - 08:00
Posts: 2144
Location: Germany

2.8V per LED wont work

Use a buck converter and the LEDs paallel
Sou can buy triple parallel with the LEDs and DTP star and optics for unbeatable 7.87$

http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S026302.Triple-Nichia-219C-Neutral-White-4000...

Joshk
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 58 min ago
Joined: 09/09/2015 - 12:12
Posts: 992
Location: USA

Parallel won’t work with only 2 batteries, that’s triple the Amps.

Texas_Ace
Texas_Ace's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 min 20 sec ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 07:44
Posts: 4013
Location: Everything is brighter in Texas

You won’t be able to drive 3× 3V LED’s from 2S voltage without a driver. At least not well, they will technically light up at full charge but will not be even as bright as a single LED.

You can either step down to a single cell and run them in parallel or up to 3 cells and run them in series.

If battery life an issue for you? The 219C has a very low Vf and running them in parrelle with a single cell helps limit max current to a reasonable level per LED (they like to pull over 10A each, I get around 16-18A in triples with thin, long wires).

What host are you using? A triple 219C is going to get silly hot, the smallest light I have found that can remotely handle the power is an eagle eye X6. Even then I have to turn down the max duty but like that it stays at a VERY hot but safe temp for the components.

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

Joshk
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 58 min ago
Joined: 09/09/2015 - 12:12
Posts: 992
Location: USA

I planned to mount it to an aluminum ring around the lens. 15 minute use max.

Texas_Ace
Texas_Ace's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 min 20 sec ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 07:44
Posts: 4013
Location: Everything is brighter in Texas

Well keep in mind that a triple 219C will be producing around 60W of heat, that is a LOT. So you need some heat sinking for sure.

My recommendation would be a triple X6, X7 or F13 (or if the new C8 spacers work out that could be an option as well). The cute-3 optics give just the kind of beam you want for a camera, nice, smooth and floody with good tint mixing.

Go with a single cell setup and run the LED’s in parallel.

My X6 with this exact setup works great, on turbo it pulls around 16-18A, has an amazing tint and perfect beam for camera work. It gets hot, maxing around 70C (160F) but doesn’t have time to actually overheat due to the voltage dropping and lowering the current.

I also get about 10-15minuintes before you really start to notice the reduction in output due to the output drop.

Just be sure to use thin wires to limit current, think I used 24AWG, anything less would get hot enough to melt the silicone coating.

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

Lexel
Lexel's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 10 min ago
Joined: 11/01/2016 - 08:00
Posts: 2144
Location: Germany

It is important to get a good thermal path to cool em

On a Lens you will not be able to run em with too high currents 1A might work so you get about 9W electrical power and 7.5W heat

With a DTP star the heatsink can reach 100dCelsius without damaging the LEDs
http://m.ebay.de/itm/Cree-XML-XML2-XPG2-Nichia-20-16-10mm-COPPER-SinkPad...

10mm is the smallest stars you find

The LED needs about 3.2V to operate

Use 2 batteries and a buck converter like this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5A-DC-DC-Step-Down-Buck-Converter-Module-Power-S...
Or a boost converter for LEDs in series
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-Power-Converter-Module-4A-Max-Step-up-Boost-X...

For heatsinking you may find ones like this and cut it in 3 parts

Joshk
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 58 min ago
Joined: 09/09/2015 - 12:12
Posts: 992
Location: USA

Can a single cell handle 60W without blowing my face off? That would ruin the footage.

Texas_Ace
Texas_Ace's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 min 20 sec ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 07:44
Posts: 4013
Location: Everything is brighter in Texas

lol, yeah a good high drain cell can handle it no problem. Modern high drain cells are rated for around 80W per cell but we could actually get away with more in an FET flashlight since it would not be able to maintain that level of output for long and would then start dropping current.

Either way, cells like the 30Q or vtc6 are rated for 20A or more depending on who you ask.

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

Lexel
Lexel's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 10 min ago
Joined: 11/01/2016 - 08:00
Posts: 2144
Location: Germany
Joshk wrote:
Can a single cell handle 60W without blowing my face off? That would ruin the footage.

Read my post above about boost/buck converters

You can run a high drain cell to about average 50W and 80W when its full, but the current will be too much for a converter

And its important for you to get at all times the same light output, so a buck/boost converter with a current limitation is needed

I would suggest 2 cells and a buck converter the LEDs running on 1A depending what the heatsink can manage
Those 5A rated buck converters I trust only up to 3.5A some trustworthy sellers do the same

Jerommel
Jerommel's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 12 hours ago
Joined: 01/04/2014 - 13:18
Posts: 3777
Location: the Hague, Netherlands

I wouldn’t run a triple 219C on 60 Watts.
They’re rated around 5 Watts each, so a triple would be 15 Watts, and it wouldn’t get too hot and still be efficient.

I get what you’re saying though.
With the low Vf of modern LEDs it seems a bit wasteful to use a linear driver (constant current with 7135 for example) which will simply burn off the excess voltage.

A buck driver on 2× 18650 in series would be nice for a 219C triple.
For 15 Watts you need approximately 5 Amperes driver output.
Should do around 1500 LED Lumen (you will lose some in the optics of course)

Looking for:

5” parabolic reflector (for recoil light)

Lexel
Lexel's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 10 min ago
Joined: 11/01/2016 - 08:00
Posts: 2144
Location: Germany
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Boost-Buck-Voltage-LM2577S-LM2596S-DC-DC-Step-Up...

This converter can be used for series LEDs and you can adjust the max current
As for all of this type you need 2 series batteries as the start to work at 4V

You can use an external potentiometer to variate the lights nrightness
I did a video about this

Parallel LEDs will limit the max current as the buck converter of this size usually is limited to 5A

Those heatsinks look good if cut in 3 parts
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/5pcs-lot-LED-Heatsink-Aluminum-Base-Radia...

Joshk
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 58 min ago
Joined: 09/09/2015 - 12:12
Posts: 992
Location: USA

I’m thinking maybe a single 30Q cell and lexel’s boost converter. With each LED at 3.4v/4A that’s 41 watts and 3240 lumens total, right?

Texas_Ace
Texas_Ace's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 min 20 sec ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 07:44
Posts: 4013
Location: Everything is brighter in Texas

I would be VERY surprised if you got 3200 lumens at 4A with a 90cri 219C (which is why you are going with the 219C correct?).

I get about ~3400 lumens @ 18A out of the 219C’s (or 6A to each LED).

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

Lexel
Lexel's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 10 min ago
Joined: 11/01/2016 - 08:00
Posts: 2144
Location: Germany

That boost converter is rated 2A output, but needs 2 cells to operate

Nichia 219 LEDs are rated 1.8A
https://www.nichia.co.jp/specification/products/led/NVSW219C-E.pdf
You can go higher on a DTP star but the efficience will suck the more you go, its better to add more LEDs

It cant be run on a single cell as the electronics need at leat 4V to operate

Fid you ever touch a 18W LED lamp when it ran a while?

The heat has to go somewhere, 3 nichias at 2A will produce 13W heat, thats more important than speculating on 4A per LED

I can build you such a light, because I have the knowledge of electronics and heatsinking them

If sou just add a ring of aluminum and mount 3 LEDs @4A on them the will cook themself in less than a minute, reaching soldering temperature and fall off on best case

Joshk
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 58 min ago
Joined: 09/09/2015 - 12:12
Posts: 992
Location: USA

Texas_Ace, what type output would you expect?
Lexel, why 2A and 2 cell? It says 4A input and 94% efficiency. So that should be 3.76A output. And it says it works down to 3v, granted, I will need to stay above 50% SOC to keep getting 4A.

Lexel
Lexel's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 10 min ago
Joined: 11/01/2016 - 08:00
Posts: 2144
Location: Germany

4A input at 3.6V = 14.4W
The battery will go down to 3V if empty so its only 12W in worst case

I am a hobby photographer and I can tell you that 3 spotlights on a macro lens will give you not the result you are aiming for

It is better to go with 1.5W 7030 LEDs that are also availiable in 95 CRI mount them as close together overlapping each other and add a suitable diffusor foil

Running 3 nichia LEDs at 1.8A max rated current will work on a single cell of you get the regulation IC supported with a higher boltage like from an 9V battery buts its easier to ass a 2. lithium cell and double the output power

Texas_Ace
Texas_Ace's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 min 20 sec ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 07:44
Posts: 4013
Location: Everything is brighter in Texas

If you check the 219C test link in my sig you will see at 4A I got 950 lumens.

Figure a bit less in the real world due to worse heat sinking them my bench setup so that puts you at ~2700 lumens before optic losses.

After you factor in optic losses figure somewhere in the 2200-2500 lumen range depending on the optic setup you use would be my guess.

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

Joshk
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 58 min ago
Joined: 09/09/2015 - 12:12
Posts: 992
Location: USA

Lexel wrote:
4A input at 3.6V = 14.4W
The battery will go down to 3V if empty so its only 12W in worst case

I am a hobby photographer and I can tell you that 3 spotlights on a macro lens will give you not the result you are aiming for

It is better to go with 1.5W 7030 LEDs that are also availiable in 95 CRI mount them as close together overlapping each other and add a suitable diffusor foil

No macro here. Do you have a link to the 95cri 7030 you mentioned?

Joshk
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 58 min ago
Joined: 09/09/2015 - 12:12
Posts: 992
Location: USA

Or a suggestion for a 2000+ lumen camera light ring that’s pre-made?

Texas_Ace
Texas_Ace's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 min 20 sec ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 07:44
Posts: 4013
Location: Everything is brighter in Texas
Joshk wrote:
Or a suggestion for a 2000+ lumen camera light right that’s pre-made?

How large are you looking for? Get an L6 and you have 3000 lumens ready to go.

The Q8 will make a great base for a camera light once it comes out.

Or like I suggested, buy X6 or X7 + triple parts, assemble, enjoy.

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

Lexel
Lexel's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 10 min ago
Joined: 11/01/2016 - 08:00
Posts: 2144
Location: Germany

http://www.ledlager.de/led-stripe-led-strip-band-1m-100cm-hoher-cri-ra-9...

This is a light strip for example.
Would need a custom board and can be run with a boost converter

If you do no macro its easier to get Nichia 219 on DTP copper stars and mount them on a circular heatsink I linked above you cut in 3 pieces
Ideally for professional DLSR lenses you can do 6 Nichia LEDs with those heatsinks cut and arranged in a circle
6 Nichia run at 1.8A with 2 boost converters off 2 18650 batteries will result in 4000 Lumens

Professionsl or hobby camera lights?
http://www.lightandmotion.com/choose-your-light/stella-pro/stella-2000
https://www.amazon.com/SeaLife-SL671-Dragon-Photo-Single/dp/B00WDSEN5U/r...

Hobby
https://www.amazon.com/LED-280S-3200K-5600K-Adjustable-Batteries-Camcord...

Joshk
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 58 min ago
Joined: 09/09/2015 - 12:12
Posts: 992
Location: USA

Those prices are scary for a camera light.
So the original plan was to use 3 triple boards round the camera lens with 1 led each. Because they are triple boards, the LED can be placed close to the lens and hide shadows. I would use 2 large hole-saws to create an aluminum doughnut to screw them to. But the driver and batteries are going to make it a real bulky setup.

Perhaps I can leave all 3 on one board and just stick it in my 26650 zoomie. I’m not sure my driver can handle it, but it’s getting tempting.

Edit: my battery would only drive 2 LEDs. I might do it anyway to try.

Lexel
Lexel's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 10 min ago
Joined: 11/01/2016 - 08:00
Posts: 2144
Location: Germany

A protected 26650 battery and FET driver with a triple wont work it will trip overcurrent protection even with 2 LEDs

A zoom light will not work great at all because the lens ruins CRI by splitting the lights gradually in its colors nor will it have useful beam pattern

Just a piece of aluminum will get coocking hot in no time, you need proper heatpath to air to stay within a safe temperature of the LEDs

Joshk
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 58 min ago
Joined: 09/09/2015 - 12:12
Posts: 992
Location: USA

Well I can limit current by not fully charging the battery. The battery protection doesn’t cut power until over 8 amp. Perhaps 2 LEDs will be all the heat I want to deal with too.

Texas_Ace
Texas_Ace's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 min 20 sec ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 07:44
Posts: 4013
Location: Everything is brighter in Texas
Joshk wrote:
Well I can limit current by not fully charging the battery. The battery protection doesn’t cut power until over 8 amp. Perhaps 2 LEDs will be all the heat I want to deal with too.

A single 219C will try to pull over 10A, you do not want protected cells with 219C’s.

What kind of camera are you talking about here, video or photo?

A lot of the better video cameras will have mounts for microphones that could hold a flashlight quite easily. Or they sell universal camera mounts that mount to the camera tripod that allow you to attach all sorts of things while offering more stable footage as well.

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

Joshk
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 58 min ago
Joined: 09/09/2015 - 12:12
Posts: 992
Location: USA

A single 219C will try to pull over 10A, if it has sufficient voltage to accommodate that 10A. But after looking at the graph again, damn, that is a flat curve…. 3.4 is good. 3.8 is too much…

Texas_Ace
Texas_Ace's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 min 20 sec ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 07:44
Posts: 4013
Location: Everything is brighter in Texas
Joshk wrote:
A single 219C will try to pull over 10A, if it has sufficient voltage to accommodate that 10A. But after looking at the graph again, damn, that is a flat curve…. 3.4 is good. 3.8 is too much…

True but even with laptop pulls I was seeing 7-8A, so no matter what you will be at or past the protection circuit if you run it flat out.

To get around this I setup the firmware to have the max duty at around 75% thus limiting current to around 6A.

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

Joshk
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 58 min ago
Joined: 09/09/2015 - 12:12
Posts: 992
Location: USA

I think PWM would make the video camera bug out. I think frames would be half-lit and half not, rolling around the screen.