ENEDED

551 posts / 0 new
Last post
BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 38 min ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 4191
Location: Canada

Um, it’s 4/6 miliOhms, not MegaOhms.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/64047
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

JasonWW
JasonWW's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 30 min ago
Joined: 10/22/2016 - 11:41
Posts: 10558
Location: Houston Texas

BlueSwordM wrote:
Um, it’s 4/6 miliOhms, not MegaOhms.

You sure? He used a capital M instead of a lowercase m. The miliOhms range is like a dead short.

I have a 3v 3 channel TA driver here. I tried to measure across the FET and got 1K ohm. Across ch 2 I get inconsistent readings. Across the single 7135 I got 4.5k 1k ohms. (Had to break our my new Probe Master test leads. DMM is still crap, though. Lol)

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 38 min ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 4191
Location: Canada

Oh you were talking about the resistors, not the RDSon of the FET.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/64047
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

JasonWW
JasonWW's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 30 min ago
Joined: 10/22/2016 - 11:41
Posts: 10558
Location: Houston Texas

IDK, I’ll leave it to TA or someone who knows these drivers really well. He built it afterall. Lol

DENGOH
DENGOH's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 7 hours ago
Joined: 10/06/2012 - 05:26
Posts: 2135

It is Mega. I conveniently call it Rdsoff. Blushing

cool i'll see you when you get there

freeme
freeme's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 3 hours ago
Joined: 11/14/2013 - 22:00
Posts: 7041

 

Does your new FET able to fix the issue?

DENGOH wrote:
It is Mega. I conveniently call it Rdsoff. :BLUSH:
DENGOH
DENGOH's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 7 hours ago
Joined: 10/06/2012 - 05:26
Posts: 2135

I don’t have suitable FET for it. I have only a replacement driver sent by Haikelite.
Before I install this new driver into the light, I wish to investigate how to repair the problematic driver.
Being busy at work that I can’t troubleshoot it yet.

cool i'll see you when you get there

DENGOH
DENGOH's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 7 hours ago
Joined: 10/06/2012 - 05:26
Posts: 2135

I troubleshoot it and can’t find any fault on voltage. There is no voltage that can turn on U2 and U4. U1 has proper 5v power. There are difference below.
1.Voltage between LED+ and LED-
Problematic driver has 410mV while replacement driver has 320mV.
2.Resistance between LED- and ground
Problematic driver has 51Mohm while replacement driver has 68Mohm. I think my previous resistance measurement done a few days ago was wrong on decimal point.

Both drivers have similar current consumption, boot up with 6.8mA and then to 7.3mA and then to 56.5uA. This is without LED connected.

cool i'll see you when you get there

Texas_Ace
Texas_Ace's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 12 min ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 07:44
Posts: 8299
Location: Everything is brighter in Texas

The FET is supposed to be the SIR800 posted before, this is what I used in the drivers I hand made and have not heard of any issues with the 100+ that are floating around.

The production drivers though have used fake FET’s in at least a few of them, it was supposed to be corrected but no idea if it ever was.

The fake FET’s are most assuredly a problem and not up to the task of this light for extended use.

Without specialized equipment it can be very hard to test an FET properly. It is generally easier to just swap it out and see if that fixes the problem. This is the first thing I would try personally, for the $1-3 it would save a lot of time in the long run.

The other option is the small FET for the 1st channel could be an issue as well but far less likely since it sees a max ~0.5A.

DENGOH
DENGOH's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 7 hours ago
Joined: 10/06/2012 - 05:26
Posts: 2135

Ya, I agree the easiest way is to swap the FET. Too bad I don’t have any suitable FET at this moment.

Is this Vishay SiR164ADP suitable? FET

cool i'll see you when you get there

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 36 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 12114
Location: LI NY

I used the SIR404DP and SIRA20DP - haven't seen the SIR164AP before. The SIRA20DP and Infineon are the 2 I use now.

That Rds spec looks high to me, compared to the A20. The A20 is pretty spectacular in specs.

Texas_Ace
Texas_Ace's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 12 min ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 07:44
Posts: 8299
Location: Everything is brighter in Texas

For testing basically any FET with the same footprint would work.

Heck you could just remove the FET and see if the leakage stops, if so then it is a very high probability you found the problem.

DENGOH
DENGOH's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 7 hours ago
Joined: 10/06/2012 - 05:26
Posts: 2135

A20 is indeed very low in Rds. Thanks for pointing out. Thanks Tom E.

I will try to get the FET removed then. Just need to get my friend’s help with his hot air. Thanks TA.

cool i'll see you when you get there

DENGOH
DENGOH's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 7 hours ago
Joined: 10/06/2012 - 05:26
Posts: 2135

I have taken out the FET with hot-air and solder the board back to the light with just LED+ and LED-, the leakage is not seen. It blinks two times when batteries make contact and then no visible leakage. I was happy for a short moment.

And then I put the replacement driver into the light by soldering all the five wires, the leakage is still there. Looks like replacement driver is not good either. Facepalm Light function well, just it has this annoying light leakage during off.

cool i'll see you when you get there

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 36 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 12114
Location: LI NY

Oh boy, not sure, but thought I seen someone post that some of the LED's may be the cause but I would think you would see it only that LED or LED(s), not all the LED's? Shame because I don't think I've seen this problem in my limited # of lights with this kind of driver and power.

DENGOH
DENGOH's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 7 hours ago
Joined: 10/06/2012 - 05:26
Posts: 2135

Sigh…wasting my hope and time.
Haven’t contact Haikelite yet, really troublesome to deal with Haikelite CS again.

cool i'll see you when you get there

JasonWW
JasonWW's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 30 min ago
Joined: 10/22/2016 - 11:41
Posts: 10558
Location: Houston Texas

DENGOH wrote:
I have taken out the FET with hot-air and solder the board back to the light with just LED+ and LED-, the leakage is not seen.

So you didn’t have the switch wires connected at this point?

This reminds me of the time I modded my S70S and did a custom blue switch led powered from a positive source on the driver. I noticed the main xhp70 led was glowing faintly. It turned out that the switch led was allowing a bit too much current to flow through the driver. I then had to run the switch led power wire to a source before the main led. That fixed it.

Anyway, you might try disconnecting the switch led and see what happens. I kind of doubt that’s the problem since we would see all the new MT09R with glowing 70.2. It doesn’t hurt to try it, though.

If no change, maybe Haikelite is using some substandard FETs. You can buy some new ones from MTN E. They are really cheap. I bought 5 to have as spares. http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=25_76...

Texas_Ace
Texas_Ace's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 12 min ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 07:44
Posts: 8299
Location: Everything is brighter in Texas

If it works as it should with the main FET removed then that pretty much means the main FET is the issue. Simply get yourself a replacement FET and you should be good to go. There are a lot of options that will work just fine depending on your location. The SIR800 / SIR404 are good proven options and what I used in my drivers.

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 38 min ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 4191
Location: Canada

The problem can come from two sources:

1. Leakage capacitance from the MOSFET. If the main lights are powered on, it’s not a big deal. On standby, and battery power, it’s a huge problem.

2. A secondary LED can do this too, although because it’s allowing too much current through, as JasonWW said.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/64047
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

DENGOH
DENGOH's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 7 hours ago
Joined: 10/06/2012 - 05:26
Posts: 2135

Thanks for all the input. I shall investigate further with your suggestions.

One thing puzzle me is why am I the only one encounter this issue for this light. I am thinking could it be my XHP70.2 leds are damaged a bit. When I initially used it with Sony 18650 which measured in 10m-20m ohm, could it damage the LEDs or change the LEDs characteristic?

I think next step is to unsolder the blue LED wire from SWLED pad. But months ago I have tried disable the blue LED during off, the light leakage was still there.

And final step is to order some Vishay FET.

cool i'll see you when you get there

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 38 min ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 4191
Location: Canada

The LEDs are not damaged.

At very, very low currents, even miniscule differences in forward voltage between dies(like 0,005V) will make them light up or not in a 6V LED.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/64047
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

JasonWW
JasonWW's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 30 min ago
Joined: 10/22/2016 - 11:41
Posts: 10558
Location: Houston Texas

DENGOH wrote:

One thing puzzle me is why am I the only one encounter this issue for this light.


I seem to recall a couple other people having this issue. They might have had an MT09R, though. Both lights used the same exact driver (the Haikelite made Texas_Ace driver).
DENGOH
DENGOH's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 7 hours ago
Joined: 10/06/2012 - 05:26
Posts: 2135

I unsolder the yellow wire from SWLED and tap it to prevent short, but light leakage is still there. So I will order some Vishay FET soon.

I notice there is one very short blue wire, I wonder what is the purpose, can’t recall any info about it. Anyone knows its purpose?

cool i'll see you when you get there

Texas_Ace
Texas_Ace's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 12 min ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 07:44
Posts: 8299
Location: Everything is brighter in Texas

There were 2 switch LED’s in the factory driver, that other wire is for the other switch LED I am pretty sure.

hIKARInoob
hIKARInoob's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 50 min ago
Joined: 08/28/2016 - 08:15
Posts: 3932
Texas_Ace wrote:
There were 2 switch LED’s in the factory driver, that other wire is for the other switch LED I am pretty sure.

The original MT03 and MT09R have a blue and red back lit button (battery checker), whereas the TA variant has only one colour right? Hence the redundant wire.

DENGOH
DENGOH's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 7 hours ago
Joined: 10/06/2012 - 05:26
Posts: 2135

Thanks. That makes sense.
Haikelite really needs sharper cutter on that wire.

cool i'll see you when you get there

DENGOH
DENGOH's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 7 hours ago
Joined: 10/06/2012 - 05:26
Posts: 2135

I finally got my FET replaced with Vishay SIRA60DP just now. The printing on the FET is very sharp compared to the FET used by Haikelite. I highly suspect Haikelite uses fake FET.
It is not leaking faint light anymore. Will continue to monitor.

cool i'll see you when you get there

JasonWW
JasonWW's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 30 min ago
Joined: 10/22/2016 - 11:41
Posts: 10558
Location: Houston Texas

That’s good to hear. I’ve been trying to study up on N channel FETs like this and man are they complicated. Hard to measure as well.

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 36 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 12114
Location: LI NY

Interesting. I've been using SIRA20DP FET's but not the A60 - haven't looked at the specs. Mostly now though I use the Infineon, this one: BSC009NE2LS5ATMA1.

For the FET's for our use, the 80-100 amp capability is the standard now. You want to look at the resistance specs, like Rds, and the timing specs. I don't understand it all for sure. For this light though, you want to make sure it's at least 16V rated but also does well at 6-10V. These high powered FET's run pretty cool now - great for higher voltage LED's and high amp single or multi LED setups.

 

DENGOH
DENGOH's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 7 hours ago
Joined: 10/06/2012 - 05:26
Posts: 2135

Jason, I measure SIRA60DP Rdsoff to be non measurable with my dmm. Haikelite fake SIR800 measured about 55Mohm. I think this 55Mohm means it is not completely open. Just my suspicions why it let some current through.

Ya, it is hard to understand so many choices of FET. Their specifications can be fun to read.
I focus mainly on Vishay, should have included Infineon in my search.

cool i'll see you when you get there

Pages