Sofirn C8F host. 21700 C8F Available

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Mike C
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JOYDAN wrote:
The future is the mainstream battery, which will replace the application rate of 26650 or 18650, which will be the mainstream of the future market.

Isn’t this just a guessed prediction? Note: I’m not arguing against you, just curious to know if this is just speculation or if manufacturing has actually expressed this. Go to any hardware shop and check for different battery sizes. To me, the variation of sizes appears to have increased over the years. I wonder why people are so sure that that is going to change.
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So make 26650 today and 21700 in the future Silly

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Mike C wrote:
Persechini wrote:
21700 seem great, and by the looks of it, they will surpass 26650s in capacity in a few years

Future 21700s may surpass today’s 26650 in a few years, but what about future 26650s? What’s saying that development of 26650 is going to stop?

If Samsung took the chemical mix of their 48G and put it in a 26650, we would have a 10A-12A constant output with maybe 6500-6800mah.

Unfortunately, we currently only have 20A 5500mah 26650’s at the moment.

Are we assuming that Sofirn might sell a 21700 version as a complete light with a battery or would it only be as a host?

I notice they offer their 26650 light, the SP33, with an optional battery, but it’s an 18650 cell and not a 26650.

One thing I notice about the other three lights on/near the market using the 21700 is that all three of them have built-in recharging. I’m pretty sure Sofirn is not going to redesign their driver to add built-in charging to it which could put a certain amount of buyers off of that size simply because their current battery chargers won’t accept a cell that long. It’s something to think about.

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well. 

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70.2, 26350 cells (4,100 lumen!), Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

10 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT Mini and ROT66

Texas_Ace BLF Calibrated Lumen tube

Maukka Calibration Lights for DIY Lumen Measuring Devices 

Review Jaxmnve M1 Stainless 10180 Keychain light

JOYDAN
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JasonWW wrote:
Mike C wrote:
Persechini wrote:
21700 seem great, and by the looks of it, they will surpass 26650s in capacity in a few years
Future 21700s may surpass *today's* 26650 in a few years, but what about future 26650s? What's saying that development of 26650 is going to stop?
If Samsung took the chemical mix of their 48G and put it in a 26650, we would have a 10A-12A constant output with maybe 6500-6800mah. Unfortunately, we currently only have 20A 5500mah 26650's at the moment. Are we assuming that Sofirn might sell a 21700 version as a complete light with a battery or would it only be as a host? I notice they offer their 26650 light, the SP33, with an optional battery, but it's an 18650 cell and not a 26650. One thing I notice about the other three lights on/near the market using the 21700 is that all three of them have built-in recharging. I'm pretty sure Sofirn is not going to redesign their driver to add built-in charging to it which could put a certain amount of buyers off of that size simply because their current battery chargers won't accept a cell that long. It's something to think about.

I think it can be built with built-in charger or attached seat, SOFIRN is willing to listen to our voice; I will contact them to arrange this proposal and send it to SOFIRN.

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Mike C wrote:
JOYDAN wrote:
The future is the mainstream battery, which will replace the application rate of 26650 or 18650, which will be the mainstream of the future market.

Isn’t this just a guessed prediction? Note: I’m not arguing against you, just curious to know if this is just speculation or if manufacturing has actually expressed this. Go to any hardware shop and check for different battery sizes. To me, the variation of sizes appears to have increased over the years. I wonder why people are so sure that that is going to change.

There are only a handful of good Lithium type cell manufacturers. Some of them are already changing there production to the new 21700 (/ 20700, not sure what’s up with that size).
The 26650 size is, afaik, not being produced anymore by the major manufacturers. Only some smaller and Chinese manufacturers might be producing them, same with the smaller less used sizes like 18350 and 26350.

The 21700 size is superior to the 18650 on efficiency. It has more capacity / power for it size (higher power density)

I don’t think that the 21700 can surpass the capacity of the highest capacity 26650’s. Mostly because they are just a lot bigger. However the 21700 will have (possible already has) a higher power density than the 26650 and thus you could conclude that it has surpassed the 26650 size.

Don’t forget that the size is only 1 part of a cell the chemistry is also important and can result in huge improvements.

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JOYDAN wrote:

I think it can be built with built-in charger or attached seat, SOFIRN is willing to listen to our voice; I will contact them to arrange this proposal and send it to SOFIRN.


They already know we need a charger and battery. They will stock them when the flashlight is on sale. They will not put built in charger in this.

Jason: they will sell both complete flash light and host too. As the 18650 C8F.

Mike C
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thijsco19 wrote:
The 26650 size is, afaik, not being produced anymore by the major manufacturers.

I see. If that is so, then yeah, anything new that isn’t 26650 is the future.
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Aaaw. Just because an influential m0r0n called Felon  Tusk decided to bring to market a new cell format…

I do not know what are the “official” reasons behind such new cell format but, beyond any whatever claimings (volume to surface ratio increase and etc), it is obvious they didn't choose 26650 to avoid providing head start to any current industry infraestructure. Packed in honeycomb arrangement there's no actual difference in the space occupied by cells in cylindrical formats.

Since the 21700 format has been brought for the new and soon largest by a long shot market of electric vehicles and such, it was quite logical for all the major players in this industry to follow. No big deal to understand, doesn't it? 

21700 better than what? Sorry? 21700 is ∅21×70mm, just that. Now, if the thing behind this (cough!) “breakthrough” were to disappear, no one would @#$%ing care about it.

Lots of useless chit-chat in this respect, imho.

 

Cheers Party

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Mike C wrote:
thijsco19 wrote:
The 26650 size is, afaik, not being produced anymore by the major manufacturers.

I see. If that is so, then yeah, anything new that isn’t 26650 is the future.

Except that the chinese manufacturers are catching up the major ones in capacity and current handling (not sure about safety), my Keeppower 26650 6000mAh (I measured 5800) is not that far behind in specs anymore.

link to djozz tests 

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Barkuti, name calling is just rude and uncalled for. So you don’t care for all the good things Musk is doing, no need to act it out in this forum.

The 21700 cell is making some surprising impacts, namely I’ve seen a pair of the iJoy 21700 deliver 32A at the tail to 3 XHP-70.2 emitters for right at 19,000 lumens… no other cell that I’ve tried comes close and I’ve tried more than a few of the top choices.

So if the 26650 cell were designed for, but room was allowed for the length of the 21700, it’d be easy enough to accommodate both cell sizes and no re-design would be needed down the line.

Dale

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thijsco19 wrote:

The 21700 size is superior to the 18650 on efficiency. It has more capacity / power for it size (higher power density)

Are you sure about this?

I looked for 2 fairly new cells with the same continous discharge rates in order to make it as comparable as possible. Apples to apples, so to speak.

Samsung 48G – 4800mah 10A
This 2170 cell (this is the new size Tesla is calling it) has a volume of 24.25mm3.
This equates to 198mah/mm3

LG MJ1 – 3400mah 10A
This 18650 cell has a volume of 16.54mm3.
This equates to 205mah/mm3

So they are pretty much the same – power density wise. The 2170 is about 47% bigger and has about 41% higher capacify. It’s not an exact scale up, but almost.

It seems Tesla is predicting their new 2170 will have a capacity of 5700-6000mah!. I have not seen any batteries with that much capacity. Not yet, at least. Have any of you?

If this turns out to be true, then the power density will definetly exceed the 18650.

So far, I really like this quote from John Peterson.

“Batteries are chemistry in a can and changing the size of the can does not change the energy density or cost of the chemistry inside the can.”

-Ps, the 20700 was going to be Tesla’s new battery size for 2017, but they changed their mind to the 2170. This is what I see reported, I’m no Tesla expert, obviously. Lol

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well. 

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70.2, 26350 cells (4,100 lumen!), Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

10 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT Mini and ROT66

Texas_Ace BLF Calibrated Lumen tube

Maukka Calibration Lights for DIY Lumen Measuring Devices 

Review Jaxmnve M1 Stainless 10180 Keychain light

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Betting in the 21700 is just that, betting.

The chemistry might be the same, but the efficiency of how much of that chemistry you can safely stash inside the can tends to go up as more R&D is put into the cell and specially in to the cell manufacturing machinery, so that is why my bet is on the 21700 format for higher energy density in the coming years. It might stay the same density, in which case I’d still prefer the 21700 over the 26650 because of the versatility of the size, my preferences on the design of the flashlights and the availability of cells from reputable manufacturers

In my Tree

My collectionEmisar: D4 / D1 / D4 (broken) ― Convoy: C8 Clear / S2+ Clear / S2+ / S2+ UV / S6 ― Nitecore: Tube / Thumb / Concept 1 / HC30 / HC33 / TIP / TIP CRI / TINI ― Lumintop: Tool AAA / Tool AA / HLAAA / EDC05 ― Sofirn: SF10 / SF12 / SF12 / SF14 / SF14 / SF14 / SP10A / SP10A (gifted) ― Jaxman: E3 ― UTorch: UT01 ― Trustfire: Z2 ― Skyfire: SF-065 (trashed)

Barkuti
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DB Custom wrote:
Barkuti, … So you don't care for all the good things Musk is doing, …

I definitively think different, but just wanted to lay out a joke with Felon Tusk, too good to pass imho. You know, Big Smile Tusk ≠ Musk.

JasonWW wrote:

It seems Tesla is predicting their new 2170 will have a capacity of *5700-6000mah!*.
… Lol

We'll see if that turns out into real non-overstated figures, and how much of it will be left after 2K cycles.

 

Cheers Party

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TrustFire 32650’s have 6000mAh capacity, and then a bit. They do pretty darn good in power delivery as well. I have 5 of them I think, 3 in one light… the TRJ20.

The problem, how I see it, is like Barkuti says… how many cycles are these chemistries going to last? Pretty darn expensive to have to buy a new “engine” every 4 or 5 years.

Dale

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DB Custom wrote:

The 21700 cell is making some surprising impacts, namely I’ve seen a pair of the iJoy 21700 deliver 32A at the tail to 3 XHP-70.2 emitters for right at 19,000 lumens… no other cell that I’ve tried comes close and I’ve tried more than a few of the top choices.

I think for this iJoy 40A 3750mAh 21700 cell, they probably use a similar chemical mix to the Sony VTC6 or similar battery. High amperage at the expense of capacity. (Mooch says this cells continous discharge rate is far below 40A, it’s about 24A)

Just general info for everyone:
Battery manufacturers can tweak their recipes to give more capacity such as the Samsung 48G (4800mah 10A) or more amperage like the Samsung 30T (3000mah 35A – which actually does 40A continous! Along with 10-12 milliohm internal resistance!)

It’s also important to note that the best chemical mixtures, the ones with the best efficiency, are the ones by the Big 4. Samsung, Sony, LG and Panasonic/Sanyo. (I hope I got this right). All the other battery manufacturers have “lesser” efficiency. Unfortunately none of the Big 4 make a 26650. That is why they lag behind the 18650 in efficiency and are almost caught up by the 20700 and 21700 which ARE being made by the Big 4.

Can you imagine a Samsung 26650 (which has a volume about double the 18650 at 34.5mm3) with the same chemical mix as the 35E? It’s capacity would be 7000mah and maybe have a 16A continous discharge rate. Compare that to the current KeepPower 26650 with 6000mah and 10A cdr.

Or Samsung could do a 26650 version of the high amperage 30Q. 6000mah and maybe 30A-40A cdr. Compare that to the current Liitokala 5000mah 20A battery.

26650’s would be serious contenders if made by the Big 4.

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well. 

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70.2, 26350 cells (4,100 lumen!), Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

10 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT Mini and ROT66

Texas_Ace BLF Calibrated Lumen tube

Maukka Calibration Lights for DIY Lumen Measuring Devices 

Review Jaxmnve M1 Stainless 10180 Keychain light

thijsco19
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JasonWW wrote:
thijsco19 wrote:

The 21700 size is superior to the 18650 on efficiency. It has more capacity / power for it size (higher power density)

Are you sure about this?

I looked for 2 fairly new cells with the same continous discharge rates in order to make it as comparable as possible. Apples to apples, so to speak.

Samsung 48G – 4800mah 10A
This 2170 cell (this is the new size Tesla is calling it) has a volume of 24.25mm3.
This equates to 198mah/mm3

LG MJ1 – 3400mah 10A
This 18650 cell has a volume of 16.54mm3.
This equates to 205mah/mm3

*So they are pretty much the same – power density wise. The 2170 is about 47% bigger and has about 41% higher capacify. It’s not an exact scale up, but almost.
*


True, I should have stated ‘is going to be’.

Quote:

“Batteries are chemistry in a can and changing the size of the can does not change the energy density or cost of the chemistry inside the can.”

The problem with 18650’s is that they maxed out.
So in order to improve battery performance they needed to go bigger. And, yes Barkuti, the 2170(0) size is more efficient, given the (possible) improvements on the capacity and performance, in the space they have to build battery packs. So that’s the reason why they went with the 2170 size.

JasonWW, I thought Samsung came up with the 20700 cell before tesla came up with the 2170?

But this is going a bit offtopic Big Smile ..

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thijsco19 wrote:

JasonWW, I thought Samsung came up with the 20700 cell before tesla came up with the 2170?

But this is going a bit offtopic Big Smile ..


Well the 20700 was definitely before the 2170. Did Samsung make a 20700 before Tesla did? Idk. If they fid, why? What was it meant to be used for?

We always go off topic. Lol. At least this time we all seem to be learning things.

BTW, my Miboxer C4-12 can take a 72mm cell and my Xtar SV2 Rocket and Xtar VC4 can both take a 71mm cell. These unprotected 21700 look to vary between 70mm and 70.5mm. I am good to go! Lol

I voted for 26650 earlier, but now I think I will vote that both new sizes are okay by me. Thumbs Up

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well. 

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70.2, 26350 cells (4,100 lumen!), Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

10 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT Mini and ROT66

Texas_Ace BLF Calibrated Lumen tube

Maukka Calibration Lights for DIY Lumen Measuring Devices 

Review Jaxmnve M1 Stainless 10180 Keychain light

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Measured my chargers:
Opus BT-C100: 72,7mm
Zanflare C4: 70mm
Liitokala Lii-500: 70,7mm
Liitokala Lii100: 70,6mm

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Jason, my wife is gonna moidarize me and it’s your fault! I ordered 2 of the Samsung 30T’s to try in my triple 70.2, see how they fare against the iJ0Y’s. These are not cheap cells!

Dale

JasonWW
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DB Custom wrote:
Jason, my wife is gonna moidarize me and it’s your fault! I ordered 2 of the Samsung 30T’s to try in my triple 70.2, see how they fare against the iJ0Y’s. These are not cheap cells!

I can only see one place that has them and they are $18 each!

Once they start being imported in larger quantities I’m sure the price will go down. You know all the vapers are gonna want them. Lol

I hope they dont burn up your 70.2’s. I would be afraid to run them in my L6 with single 70.2 and FET. You have 3 emitters, so maybe you have more safety margin.

It looks like the 48G would be the better choice in a Sofirn C8F at about $9 each. Frankly all these 21700 are pretty pricey. It’s off putting, but once you buy it you’ll forget all about the expense. Lol

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well. 

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70.2, 26350 cells (4,100 lumen!), Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

10 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT Mini and ROT66

Texas_Ace BLF Calibrated Lumen tube

Maukka Calibration Lights for DIY Lumen Measuring Devices 

Review Jaxmnve M1 Stainless 10180 Keychain light

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JasonWW wrote:
DB Custom wrote:

The 21700 cell is making some surprising impacts, namely I’ve seen a pair of the iJoy 21700 deliver 32A at the tail to 3 XHP-70.2 emitters for right at 19,000 lumens… no other cell that I’ve tried comes close and I’ve tried more than a few of the top choices.

I think for this iJoy 40A 3750mAh 21700 cell, they probably use a similar chemical mix to the Sony VTC6 or similar battery. High amperage at the expense of capacity. (Mooch says this cells continous discharge rate is far below 40A, it’s about 24A)

Just general info for everyone:
Battery manufacturers can tweak their recipes to give more capacity such as the Samsung 48G (4800mah 10A) or more amperage like the Samsung 30T (3000mah 35A – which actually does 40A continous! Along with 10-12 milliohm internal resistance!)

It’s also important to note that the best chemical mixtures, the ones with the best efficiency, are the ones by the Big 4. Samsung, Sony, LG and Panasonic/Sanyo. (I hope I got this right). All the other battery manufacturers have “lesser” efficiency. Unfortunately none of the Big 4 make a 26650. That is why they lag behind the 18650 in efficiency and are almost caught up by the 20700 and 21700 which ARE being made by the Big 4.

Can you imagine a Samsung 26650 (which has a volume about double the 18650 at 34.5mm3) with the same chemical mix as the 35E? It’s capacity would be 7000mah and maybe have a 16A continous discharge rate. Compare that to the current KeepPower 26650 with 6000mah and 10A cdr.

Or Samsung could do a 26650 version of the high amperage 30Q. 6000mah and maybe 30A-40A cdr. Compare that to the current Liitokala 5000mah 20A battery.

26650’s would be serious contenders if made by the Big 4.


Actually Liitokala 50A delivers less current than Keeppower (really: PLB) “6000 mAh”.
BTW, I’m dreaming of PLB tech in 32650 cell…that would be like 8800 mAh at low currents and 8300 mAh at high.
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So, back to the OP… 26650 or 21700 for a new C8F-like flashlight.

This is my personal opinion and what makes sense for me. YMMV

Like many here, I am eager to see the true potential of the 21700 format.

But for TODAY, I choose 26650 and will immediately purchase several 26650 based C8F flashlights.

I already have several 26650s waiting for flashlights/hosts… and prices are very good when I purchase more.

I have zero 21700s (or compatible chargers) and my limited research tells me these new cells are currently more expensive.

If this new flashlight is brought to market in a year or two, then 21700 might make sense.

If this new flashlight is brought to market in a few months, then definitely 26650.

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Like I said, a light built for the 26650 can house the 21700 much easier than the other way around.

And yes, Jason, they wouldn’t use USPS either so FED-EX was another $11! $50 for 2 cells!!!

Dale

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I think maybe Jason hit on something we should think about here. If the new breed of 21700 can deliver TOO much, would it blow emitters in the Sofirn C8F triple?

So if the light is made FOR the 21700 size then it might be somewhat more difficult to find cells that perform LOWER, would be a lot easier and safer all around to have the light made for 26650 and when we mod we could take measure to prevent over-current if we plan to use the top 21700’s.

Just a thought…

Dale

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DB Custom wrote:
Like I said, a light built for the 26650 can house the 21700 much easier than the other way around.

And yes, Jason, they wouldn’t use USPS either so FED-EX was another $11! $50 for 2 cells!!!

You may be interested to see this light I purchased which is 21700/20700 but fits 18650 also:

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/59905

It has very unusual springs and battery sleeve to size down. If such a thing as a protected button top 21700 were to exist i’m not sure this would be compatible without changing the springs. By doing that you probably lose out on 18650 flat tops or may run into drop disconnects? I guess the point i’m trying to make is that for you and I this is clever and makes a flexible host but for a ready made light it’s sort of like a jack of all trades master of none. To be fair it does work well with flat top 21700 and flat top 18650 as is.

I suspect when I end up modding this light in the future I will choose springs which fit 21700 really well and if it ends up breaking other compatibility then so be it. I’d rather have a light that does one thing really well.

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Caleb wrote:
So, back to the OP… 26650 or 21700 for a new C8F-like flashlight. This is my personal opinion and what makes sense for me. YMMV Like many here, I am eager to see the true potential of the 21700 format. But for TODAY, I choose 26650 and will immediately purchase several 26650 based C8F flashlights. I already have several 26650s waiting for flashlights/hosts… and prices are very good when I purchase more. I have zero 21700s (or compatible chargers) and my limited research tells me these new cells are currently more expensive. If this new flashlight is brought to market in a year or two, then 21700 might make sense. If this new flashlight is brought to market in a few months, then definitely 26650.

Your argument makes a lot of sense, considering a product released, you’d have to count on batteries available in the present, and for higher capacity 26650s still win

Yet my preference still lies with “aspect ratio” and portability. I don’t have any 26650 flashlights, but I have a C8 and it feels like it’s on the upper end of the size of flashlight I’d purchase. Both 26650 and 21700 sized tubes would fit our current 18650 cells, so they would still be useful in the present, and for that I’d rather have the narrower of the 2.

But maybe a 26650 version of a C8 or an SP33-like flashlight will make into my collection someday

In my Tree

My collectionEmisar: D4 / D1 / D4 (broken) ― Convoy: C8 Clear / S2+ Clear / S2+ / S2+ UV / S6 ― Nitecore: Tube / Thumb / Concept 1 / HC30 / HC33 / TIP / TIP CRI / TINI ― Lumintop: Tool AAA / Tool AA / HLAAA / EDC05 ― Sofirn: SF10 / SF12 / SF12 / SF14 / SF14 / SF14 / SP10A / SP10A (gifted) ― Jaxman: E3 ― UTorch: UT01 ― Trustfire: Z2 ― Skyfire: SF-065 (trashed)

JasonWW
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contactcr wrote:
If such a thing as a protected button top 21700 were to exist i’m not sure this would be compatible without changing the springs.

I’m sure there is or will be. Companies can add protection circuitry to any battery type. Acebeam has a protected 20700 in their L30 light. It is about 74mm long, though.

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well. 

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70.2, 26350 cells (4,100 lumen!), Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

10 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT Mini and ROT66

Texas_Ace BLF Calibrated Lumen tube

Maukka Calibration Lights for DIY Lumen Measuring Devices 

Review Jaxmnve M1 Stainless 10180 Keychain light

DB Custom
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Oddly enough, within a couple of hours of my ordering the Samsung 30T from IMRBatteries I got an email from them pushing this new cell. So it’s a brand new arrival with limited stock. The point really is that the new 21700 is taking off and they’re becoming available in many different brands now.

If Sofirn were to make the C8F in a 21700 format and supply a cell with it like they did the 18650 triple then it really wouldn’t be an issue of availability as it would come ready to go.

I change virtually all my lights anyway, so cell compatibility is really not a concern of mine.

Not sure protection circuits would work well on a high discharge cell of this caliber unless they have cababilites out there that they haven’t been using to date. With 50A and more on tap, the protection circuit would possibly be highly prone to failure. Not exactly sure how that works.

Dale

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Hey everybody, just a heads up…. in case someone is thinking about these new Samsung 30T cells, be careful! They are POTENT! Like, wicked monster potent!

I built my triple XHP-70.2 from scratch, right? Found the best results with iJoy 21700 cells at some 32.2A at the tail for 18,940 lumens. I was really stoked about that, but I got the Samsung 30T’s today and all I can say is Dayum! These things will kill a lot of lights, I’m telling ya, fresh charged they did 48.8A in this light for a whopping 21,631.5 lumens!

Pretty sure they will damage lesser emitters than the 70.2’s, well ok, they’ll kill most emitters. Just saying beware that they are beasts and proceed with caution if you decide to get these, ok?

Dale

Lightbringer
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Hmm, 50% more current for… 9% more light?

Still, almost 50A out of the beastie is pretty impressive. Big Smile

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