The SYNIOSBEAM - CFT90 recoil thrower

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zpinch
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I just found your build threads on your so called “flashlight” builds Enderman, I must say I greatly admire your engineering skills and workmanship on your projects. Seriously great work. Beer

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+1 ….. Thumbs Up … He quiet frankly amazes me with the things he comes up with.

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teacher wrote:
+1 ….. Thumbs Up … He quiet frankly amazes me with the things he comes up with.

Better add me here as well though he does know anyway. Smile

 

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zpinch wrote:
I just found your build threads on your so called “flashlight” builds Enderman, I must say I greatly admire your engineering skills and workmanship on your projects. Seriously great work. Beer

teacher wrote:
+1 ….. Thumbs Up … He quiet frankly amazes me with the things he comes up with.

Hey thanks guys Smile

MRsDNF wrote:

Better add me here as well though he does know anyway. Smile
Big Smile
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Here are a few overexposed beamshots which look really cool Smile



And here are some which aren’t overexposed. The sky wasn’t super dark because it’s summer and it was early morning (like 2am).





Still waiting for my custom CFT90 driver to arrive, can’t wait to see what 5x more lumens will do to the beam!
I have to admit, focusing this thing is a pain even with the three-screw system, part of the reason being the small LED and huge angle off-axis (like 85 degrees) that most of the reflector collects light at.
Haven’t been able to get more than 7.5mcd yet which is a bit disappointing.
I will be attempting to focus it better and measure again in one or two weeks, I’ll let you guys know if I get an improvement.
This optic system is great for getting extremely high luminous efficiency, collecting close to 90% of all the lumens into the beam and spot (more than any other type of optic!) so the CFT90 or other high output LED (dedomed XHP70.2? Wink ) is probably a better fit for this type of flashlight.
I don’t recommend this type of retro-reflector for anyone making a superthrower, unless you use a long focal length mirror similar to a telescope, in which case it will behave more like a lens and lose the high efficiency.
Still glad that this set a new record for LED searchlights/flashlights Smile as far as I know there isn’t any other LED light that can throw further, not even LED lighthouses.

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I think your friend you’re building one for is ready to come pick it up

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Big Smile
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Looking forward to seeing the CFT-90 in action!

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Enderman
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BVH wrote:
Looking forward to seeing the CFT-90 in action!

Same, I think this upgrade will make the whole project worth it, despite lower than expected candela.
It should also make it easier to focus thanks to the larger die, so who knows, it might get higher than 7.5M Big Smile no promises though…
The_Driver
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Nice pics!

Have you tried varriing the height of the LED?

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Genial Thumbs Up

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What is a reasonable price for the CFT-90 LED? I heard some rumours about 70-100 Euros/Dollars, so probably something you’d better handle with velvet gloves on. Big Smile

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For a second, I thought I was in the wrong tab of my browser… which is LPF Wink
Nice, really nice pencil beam Enderman !

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The_Driver wrote:
Nice pics!

Have you tried varriing the height of the LED?


Thanks Smile There is no need, since I can simply vary the height of the reflector by adjusting all three screws equal amounts.
The problem with focusing isn’t the z-position of the LED or reflector, it’s getting all areas of the reflector to be reflecting the LED image perfectly forward, so tilting in different directions.

Xandre wrote:
Genial Thumbs Up

Thanks!

FlashTom wrote:
What is a reasonable price for the CFT-90 LED? I heard some rumours about 70-100 Euros/Dollars, so probably something you’d better handle with velvet gloves on. Big Smile

Yeah I paid over $150 CAD for it, so about 100 eur… it’s not cheap.

X3 wrote:
For a second, I thought I was in the wrong tab of my browser… which is LPF Wink
Nice, really nice pencil beam Enderman !

Haha thank you Big Smile
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A couple of you have seen my creations and now I’d like to try one of this type.
Would this reflector be too cheap and nasty for this application?

https://www.edmundoptics.com.au/optics/optical-mirrors/focusing-concave-...

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RattleSnake wrote:
A couple of you have seen my creations and now I’d like to try one of this type.
Would this reflector be too cheap and nasty for this application?

https://www.edmundoptics.com.au/optics/optical-mirrors/focusing-concave-...


Someone on TLF is making a huge project with 3 of the 24” ones, but haven’t seen any updates in a while.
I have no idea how accurate their surface is, or what the reflectivity of the polished aluminum is.
It seems like just a stamped piece of metal, which would be far less precise than electroformed optics.
You get what you pay for, right?

If you’re not trying to get amazingly high lux, just collect all the flux from the LED into a beam, then I’m sure it will work fine for you.

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Enderman wrote:
BVH wrote:
Looking forward to seeing the CFT-90 in action!
Same, I think this upgrade will make the whole project worth it, despite lower than expected candela. It should also make it easier to focus thanks to the larger die, so who knows, it might get higher than 7.5M Big Smile no promises though...

 

It will! There are now beamshots from vin which show the difference nicely:

 

Thrunite Tn42 with Osram Black Flat

 

Thrunite Tn42 with Luminus CFT-90 (only 24A I think...)

 

One thing I notice on your beamshots is that the beam looks a bit "fuzzy" for such a large reflector. Maybe this is caused by the spcial orentation of the LED? It doesn't look optimal to me. 

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The_Driver wrote:
One thing I notice on your beamshots is that the beam looks a bit “fuzzy” for such a large reflector. Maybe this is caused by the spcial orentation of the LED? It doesn’t look optimal to me. 

The outer diameters of the reflector not only reflect fewer lumens, but there is a larger area too, which causes the intensity of the beam to decrease towards the outsides of the beam.
I think that’s what you mean by the fuzzy look.

A forward facing reflector kinda does the opposite, as you go to the outer edges of the reflector you approach ~45 degree angle which is where the most lumens are emitted by the LED.
Same for a lens, much sharper looking beam.

Even though the beam isn’t as bright towards the edges of my reflector it should still contribute as much to the lux as all other areas, assuming it is focused perfectly, which currently it is not Silly

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Thanks for the comparison Driver!

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PERFORMANCE RESULTS

12am, I just got home from doing some focusing and testing with my friend, and here are the results:

98 ×10 lux @ 100.6m distance
Lux measured with Dr. Meter LX1330B luxmeter.
Distance measured using UNI-T UT393B laser meter.
That’s 980 lux at ~100m, so 980 * 100^2 = 9 800 000 candela
Shocked
6.26km ANSI
Took close to an hour of just turning screws and measuring different parts of the spot since the focus is so finicky, and 9.8Mcd is the best we were able to get.
Luckily I have friends that are willing to stand outside for hours reading out numbers to me over the phone Big Smile

It’s not close to the 13Mcd from the theoretical calculations, but I’m very pleased with this result, much better than 7.5Mcd.

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I think that 9.8 Mcd is pretty close to 13 Mcd considering that with such a small light source you are probably testing the positioning and reflector quality to its limits. The LX1330B (which does not have a great optical filter and is likely calibrated with a 2700K tungsten source) does over-read cool white leds so the actual number may be a bit lower.

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The 1330B tests by the person over on TLF were very close to their high end luxmeter.
So either the 1330B you tested is a cheap clone, or there are discrepancies between high end luxmeters too.
Unfortunately with TLF down I can’t check what model the other person’s professional luxmeter was.

PS- Do you know any place to find professional luxmeters at a reasonable price (under $500?)
I know I’m not using the most professional accurate measuring equipment but the LX1330B was by far the best budget luxmeter for the price back when I got it.
Assuming worst case scenario, a 10-20% overestimate like in your tests, that’s still about 8Mcd Smile

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Enderman wrote:
The 1330B tests by the person over on TLF were very close to their high end luxmeter.
So either the 1330B you tested is a cheap clone, or there are discrepancies between high end luxmeters too.
Unfortunately with TLF down I can’t check what model the other person’s professional luxmeter was.

PS- Do you know any place to find professional luxmeters at a reasonable price (under $500?)


That TLF test of the LX1330B was only done with low CRI cool and neutral flashlights (and an incan source), my test with a wider variety of light sources showed the deviations better. A 3000K 90CRI XM-L2 source was measured 3% low by the LX1330B, A 6000K(?) XM-L2 (from SWM D40A) was measured 9% high by the LX1330B. The comparison was a Mobilux (DIN-) class A luxmeter which is the same luxmeter as the Gossen meter in the TLF test but with a higher-classed (A instead of B) sensor unit.

I have no real experience-based recommendation for a quality luxmeter. Because my financial sources for the hobby are limited, I do not have an extensive collection of high end luxmeters to test. I was lucky to purchase my Mobilux meter second-hand for 425 euro (hardly used), and I own a 160 dollar (taiwanese) Tasi meter that is also in the test in the link above, that one is not too bad. But I would love to do some comparitive testing with a calibrated Extech meter (because many people have one and it is high regarded in the US), especially to see how the optical filter is behaving (I suspect it is ok but not great), and also a good Konica-Minolta luxmeter.
Searching the internet for luxmeter tests is useles, they are not there: what I do with my hobby equipment at home is already way more extensive than anything found on the internet.

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Oh I see, that makes sense.
I’ll see if I can find something used, would rather pay $500 for a class A luxmeter than $200 for a tasi which I might want to replace later on.
I wonder why the high CRI 6500k led was so much worse than the 70 cri 6500k on the 1330..

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Enderman wrote:

I wonder why the high CRI 6500k led was so much worse than the 70 cri 6500k on the 1330..

I find it pretty complicated to relate the reading error of luxmeters to the combination of the led output spectrum and the deviation of the sensitivity curve (it is interpreting 3 curves at the same time, of which the led spectrum has multiple peaks Sick ). In this case I think the extra reading error of the high CRI 6500K led is caused by the high red content, the LX13130B not just over-reads the blues, it also reads everything above 620nm pretty high.
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I have the LX1330B as well, I find it reads low, by alot. Comparing various flashlights and known Lux values, my particular meter reads at least 15% low.

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Interesting.
Even worst case scenario, 20% overestimate, still the brightest LED searchlight in the world Smile

I can’t find any high end luxmeters with A class sensors for a good price, I might just buy a TASI since it’s on sale: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/TASI-632A-Digital-Light-Meter-USB-DC-Power-Luxmeter-Meters-Digital-LCD-Backlight-illuminometer-Storage-128/2797144_32791440073.html

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Enderman wrote:
PERFORMANCE RESULTS

12am, I just got home from doing some focusing and testing with my friend, and here are the results:

98 ×10 lux @ 100.6m distance
Lux measured with Dr. Meter LX1330B luxmeter.
Distance measured using UNI-T UT393B laser meter.
That’s 980 lux at ~100m, so 980 * 100^2 = 9 800 000 candela
Shocked
6.26km ANSI
Took close to an hour of just turning screws and measuring different parts of the spot since the focus is so finicky, and 9.8Mcd is the best we were able to get.
Luckily I have friends that are willing to stand outside for hours reading out numbers to me over the phone Big Smile

It’s not close to the 13Mcd from the theoretical calculations, but I’m very pleased with this result, much better than 7.5Mcd.

You have to remember that you didn’t “bin” your LED. It might simply not have the luminance of the best performing Black Flat’s.

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The_Driver wrote:

You have to remember that you didn’t “bin” your LED. It might simply not have the luminance of the best performing Black Flat’s.

Unless you buy multiple reels of 2000 LEDs each, you can’t bin them.
All the LEDs in a reel are the same bin, and the whole reel is a random bin anywhere from 8M to 7N. I haven’t found any place that has narrower range of bins in stock, such as 5N7N, except for this place with an MOQ of 2000: http://www.chip1stop.com/web/CAN/en/dispDetail.do?partId=OSRA-0024887&ut...
N6 to 7N, so could be any of the top 3 bins.

That’s pretty much the only way to increase your chances of getting a better bin.

The only other way is possibly buying from different mouser locations or different distributors which will have a different open reel each.

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I’d like to mention, if anyone is building a similar flashlight maybe consider using this reflector I found on ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Glass-parabolic-reflector-mirror-searchlights-s...

It’s made of glass and will not flex like the electroformed reflectors do, as well as a 4” focal length instead of 3”, which will make focusing easier.
No info on the surface precision or reflectivity %, but for $170 it’s a great price for this type of optic.
Only difficult part will be making a mount for it which centers properly while protecting it from damage.

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