[Optisolis/E17A/E21A] Jetbeam Jet-µ

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clemence
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Still waiting for the 30° optics (Jetusolis) guys.

- Clemence

iamlucky13
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clemence wrote:

All those TIR optic prices are all the same at $0,2/pc. Both types of the MCPCB price is $1,58. You can order them via the store soon (before Monday)
You might want to wait for the 30°optics next week, currently only few left. The vendor sent me wrong optics earlier.
FYI, they fits Fenix E05 too

- Clemence

I’m glad to read this. Even better if you also offer reflow service for the MCPCBs. The Jetusolis and JetuE21A lights interest me very much, but I also have a couple E05’s that really could use better emitters and optics.

malkoffdevices
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me too.

peabody wrote:
So we keep ckecking Virence for the release of these?

London !

SKV89
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iamlucky13 wrote:
clemence wrote:

All those TIR optic prices are all the same at $0,2/pc. Both types of the MCPCB price is $1,58. You can order them via the store soon (before Monday)
You might want to wait for the 30°optics next week, currently only few left. The vendor sent me wrong optics earlier.
FYI, they fits Fenix E05 too

- Clemence

I’m glad to read this. Even better if you also offer reflow service for the MCPCBs. The Jetusolis and JetuE21A lights interest me very much, but I also have a couple E05’s that really could use better emitters and optics.

Good point. Clemence, can I add 3 of the 30deg optics to my order if you haven’t shipped it out yet? Thanks.

contactcr
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Any update on these?

clemence
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contactcr wrote:
Any update on these?

The vendor sent me wrong optics – they fix it, shipped the correct optics in 181219 – Today 190107 the vendor received the packet they sent to me, declined by the custom for whatever reasons we don’t know. Weird, it was only 1000pcs of tiny PMMA optics.
I decided to start selling the Jetue21a using the 20° the day after tomorrow, since single E21A has no problem with any optics.. Jetusolis beam looks best with correct 30° but 20° still okay-ish. Perfectionist will have to wait if they want the best Jetusolis.

- Clemence

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This looked pretty good to me but maybe there is something subtle you can only detect in person. Thanks for the update

twisted raven
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I’m still undecided on E21A vs Optisolis. What are your subjective impressions of how the two render color? Also, is that positive duv of the optisolis on the previous page the numbers of it in the host with optics? If so, that’s kinda green.

clemence
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twisted raven wrote:
I’m still undecided on E21A vs Optisolis. What are your subjective impressions of how the two render color? Also, is that positive duv of the optisolis on the previous page the numbers of it in the host with optics? If so, that’s kinda green.

https://www.virence.com/single-post/2018/12/24/AppNote-181224-Jetusolis-...

clemence
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contactcr wrote:
This looked pretty good to me but maybe there is something subtle you can only detect in person. Thanks for the update

The problem can only easily seen on 3500K and below. I saw this when I prepared SKV89’s 2700K Jetusolis. On white wall 20° still cast visible warmer ring at the very outer edge. Cooler than 3500K, you have to look for it but it’s still there. I only have 3pcs 30° sample for reference optic. Frosted TIR won’t fix Optisolis weird beam pattern even those with 90° angle.
It’s very hard to make Optisolis work as a single LED. In general lighting luminaires (Optisolis designed application), you use multiple of them in diffused optics. The best narrow beam TIR optic for Optisolis are such as those expensive Gaggione with triple mixing treatments right off the LED cavity, not just at final surface level. The 30° optics I got is very rare to find, the micro lensed surface are (unintentionally) unique.

- Clemence

twisted raven
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clemence wrote:
twisted raven wrote:
I’m still undecided on E21A vs Optisolis. What are your subjective impressions of how the two render color? Also, is that positive duv of the optisolis on the previous page the numbers of it in the host with optics? If so, that’s kinda green.

https://www.virence.com/single-post/2018/12/24/AppNote-181224-Jetusolis-...

Yes I read that, but it didn’t go into much about color rendering, other than to say the E21A is more rosy, and prettier to look at. How do they do on wood and flesh tones, what benefit do we gain from the extra cyan output of the Optisolis ETC when shone on objects?

contactcr
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Well whenever it’s ready just update here before maukka’s package goes out cause I want one sent there

clemence
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twisted raven wrote:
clemence wrote:
twisted raven wrote:
I’m still undecided on E21A vs Optisolis. What are your subjective impressions of how the two render color? Also, is that positive duv of the optisolis on the previous page the numbers of it in the host with optics? If so, that’s kinda green.

https://www.virence.com/single-post/2018/12/24/AppNote-181224-Jetusolis-...

Yes I read that, but it didn’t go into much about color rendering, other than to say the E21A is more rosy, and prettier to look at. How do they do on wood and flesh tones, what benefit do we gain from the extra cyan output of the Optisolis ETC when shone on objects?

Optisolis:
- VERY consistent CCT and tint
- Better blue, yellow, and turquoise

I don’t know if you can see it or not. The picture below the tint of E21A changed from neutral to pinkish. Also the background color behind the “coconut milk” words looks totally different under Optisolis. The cloud details looks better.
The R9 in E21A looks higher while in fact its just stands out more. In Optisolis test result the R9 is actually higher that that in E21A, so does the rest of the R1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 too.

- Clemence

let_there_be_light
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Is there any directly or indirectly visible PWM (i.e. < 3 kHz) in any mode for the Jetusolis?

clemence
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OK, to feed our curiosity. I made some tintshot for you guys using my newest batch of E21A and Optisolis (tinshots in previous post were taken using Optisolis samples from last year).

Under the shade, notice the clear sky above. At 17:00 o’clock the sun’s CCT is about 5000K with slightly reddish tint. 12:00 o’clock sun cast neutral at much cooler CCT (close to 6500K in Bali). I believe pollution also plays an important role to the sky’s cleanliness. In Java island where there’s much higher SMOG accumulation, everything looks warmer. In Bali the air is so much cleaner, the sky looks lighter (light blue), with almost no haze. We tanned faster too in Bali, higher UV intensity I believe.

Night tint shot at the same location. Minimal light from other sources

The color wheel printed using office printer with generic cheap refill ink. You can see double green palettes, the one next to light blue supposed to be turquoise – the color Optisolis excels at. I really need to buy a professional color wheel with real pigment.
At a first glance it seems there are no differences between E21A and Optisolis. But take a closer look, it’s the green that renders better with Optisolis. In real life the most noticeable differences between E21A R9080 and Optisolis are greens, blues, and turquoise.

Another tintshots, mind the wrong focus (to the wall instead to the table)
Here you can see how “red enhanced” E21A makes the wooden table more red than they’re supposed to be under the sun. The same (subtle) behavior version as created by the legendary 219B sw45k. That what makes me never liked the sw45k. Someone in BLF also mentioned how ugly the sun compared to 219B sw45k R9080!

It’s subtle by the picture but in reality E21A R9080 is definitely pink tinted. This is also why I never recommends E21A for any medical examination except for the 6500K to prevent false diagnosis. Natural red pigmented colors such as skin, meat, dog’s hair, wood, etc, reacts heavily under R9080 unlike man made red colors.
E21A R9080 will show you limited range of blues. But with Optisolis, you will find blues are not just blue – you will see more turquoises than ever before. Green leaves also looks darker under Optisolis

- Clemence

clemence
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let_there_be_light wrote:
Is there any directly or indirectly visible PWM (i.e. < 3 kHz) in any mode for the Jetusolis?

AFAIK, newer Jet-U doesn’t use PWM in any mode.

- Clemence

twisted raven
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Thanks a lot for the pics and impressions Clemence, just what I wanted!

The color rendering numbers posted earlier for the Optisolis show a duv of +.0020, so it’s still above BBL aka slightly green. Are those numbers with the Optisolis in your optics, or the bare emitter? Could it be that the Optisolis gets even more green once inside your optics? I’m just thinking, that if you want to push complete perfection, maybe you should put in a Zircon minus green filter to get it down to .0000 or as close as possible. On the other hand, you could keep it slightly above the BBL if you want it to be a sunlight simulator, as sunlight is also slightly above the BBL.

clemence
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twisted raven wrote:
Thanks a lot for the pics and impressions Clemence, just what I wanted!

The color rendering numbers posted earlier for the Optisolis show a duv of +.0020, so it’s still above BBL aka slightly green. Are those numbers with the Optisolis in your optics, or the bare emitter? Could it be that the Optisolis gets even more green once inside your optics? I’m just thinking, that if you want to push complete perfection, maybe you should put in a Zircon minus green filter to get it down to .0000 or as close as possible. On the other hand, you could keep it slightly above the BBL if you want it to be a sunlight simulator, as sunlight is also slightly above the BBL.

Yes, side by side Optisolis is greener than E21A. Alone, it’s just neutral. This is the JonSlider effect (he popularize the phenomenon). Even my camera agrees. Minus green filter is a good extra but I simply don’t want (and) have that. I’ll let the user put it on. Again, it’s greener than E21A but it’s natural as you said above, even the sun is above BBL.
One more thing: the tint shift from low mode to high is very pronounced in E21A (neutral to pinkish). While with Optisolis its rock solid

- Clemence

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Yeah mitigating tint shift on different output modes is nice. I kinda gave up on the idea of emulating the sunlight with my flashlights. At the end of the day, the sun is just far too bright compared to any flashlight we have, putting 100k lux on every square inch of the ground. It also illuminates things at a far different angle than us holding a flashlight at ground level.

It’d be cool if Maukka get an optisolis one and measured what its duv was, so I could filter accordingly. I’d want to strive for perfection with 0.0000 duv. Derek Dean got me into filters on CPF, and I’m an avid user of them now. I prefer my SST20 4000k with a quarter minus green over the famous 219B R9080 SW45k.

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My E07 is my first and last 219B R9080 SW45k. Stepless dimming = stepless tint shifting, not for me.

clemence
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Perhaps there should be stepless PWM too

- Clemence

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clemence wrote:
let_there_be_light wrote:
Is there any directly or indirectly visible PWM (i.e. < 3 kHz) in any mode for the Jetusolis?
AFAIK, newer Jet-U doesn’t use PWM in any mode.

Excellent, thank you!

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twisted raven wrote:
I prefer my SST20 4000k with a quarter minus green over the famous 219B R9080 SW45k.

glad youre happy
1/4 minus green lowers DUV by 0.007, so that would bring the SST-20 to -.0038
I can see why you would prefer that.. I also prefer tint below BBL

can you share some beamshots?

the pics are links to maukka’s posts
fwiw, here is the sw45

and SST-20 in a reflector

1/4 minus green also lowers lumens by 16%:

maukka wrote:
Lee filter samples

Three different minus green filters tested: minus eighth, quarter and half.

Light [transmitted]
No filter: 100 %
1/8: 88.8 %
1/4: 83.8 %
1/2: 73.7 %

clemence
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Easy fix for the greener Optisolis then Wink
But, unless you really need extremely high CRI, Jetue21a is all you need. More runtime, pretty tint, flexible beam (with supplied optics), and brighter.

- Clemence

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Where are you getting the .007 figure from Jon? The only numbers I could find where from when Maukka applied it to the LH351D, and it pushed it .003ish or so to the rosy side. I wouldn’t consider my SST20 with filter as rosy as the 219B SW45K R9080— only in turbo mode. In its low-mid modes which I use the most, it subjectively looks like it’s right on or very close to neutral.

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twisted raven wrote:
Where are you getting the .007 figure from Jon?

maukkas Lee Filters chart says duv 0.006 for the xiaomi w no filter and -0.001 w 1/4 minus green

the change from 0.006 to -0.001 is a drop of 0.007 from the 1/4 minus green

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Just for fun Quiz!

Which one has the highest CRI?
Only geometry correction, NO color editing whatsoever simply RAW to JPEG conversion, 5600K WB balance

My quess, nobody would see the differences since our monitors are still limited to RGB Amoled or LED. In the real world it’s so much easier to discern.
I’ll give the answer later…. happy guessing!

To prevent anyone think I would cheat, here’s the link to the answers: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1wWGvSrdfIve9Q4EohP3B6sFzbal9w_q4
Will give the open password later.

*Please vote HERE

- Clemence

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Unno, but if I really had to guess I’d say #3.

No idea what colors the crayons might actually be in Real Life™, so yeah, it’s just a guess. Big Smile

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

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Really hard to distinguish between the colors in 3,4 – only the background and glass is noticeably different here.

The colors in 1 look a bit muted and I assume it’s most above BBL due to background

Not sure what is the best CRI but visually (including tint) I think I would go 4,2,3,1 – best to worst. I would probably say 4,3,2,1 judging by CRI alone. I hope i’m wrong and I prefer the worst LED possible so I can not be concerned about such things as much.

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Nice LOL

According to your comparison above
I speculate Smile

Picture 1: Is this daylight?

Picture 2 and 3: I see a little rosy tint on the glas? I like this Thumbs Up

Picture 4: Is this the Optisolis? It seems the light blue is a little bit more clear, less rosy

Facepalm

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