ARRIVED: Imalent MS18 with 100,000Lumen and R90TS with 36,000Lumen

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JasonWW
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grahambo0101 wrote:
BlueSwordM wrote:
Yeah. Samsung 40Ts are 35A+ is really not sustainable.

30Ts would’ve been much better.

Battery packs are 4s2p, 35a cells will be plenty.

If the leds need 200 amps at 6v, that is 50A per cell.

It looks like the 40T data sheet says it can do 45A continous, but only up to 80°C. So short duration 45A is okay.

Maybe the 40T is fine since max turbo on this light is pretty short and the cells should not overheat in that short period.

grahambo0101
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JasonWW wrote:
grahambo0101 wrote:
BlueSwordM wrote:
Yeah. Samsung 40Ts are 35A+ is really not sustainable.

30Ts would’ve been much better.

Battery packs are 4s2p, 35a cells will be plenty.

If the leds need 200 amps at 6v, that is 50A per cell.

It looks like the 40T data sheet says it can do 45A continous, but only up to 80°C. So short duration 45A is okay.

Maybe the 40T is fine since max turbo on this light is pretty short and the cells should not overheat in that short period.

Are they not running these LEDs at 12v? If they are running at 6v that is some pretty heavy buck at play considering the battery packs are 16.8v

BlueSwordM
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I actually said that the 35A+ required by the light at full power are not good for the cell at all.

30Ts would’ve been quite a bit better.

Also, I doubt it’s using a buck. Starting with the MS12, 10k+ lumens go out the window in terms of regulation.

They are basically running in direct drive.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/64047
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

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grahambo0101 wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
grahambo0101 wrote:
BlueSwordM wrote:
Yeah. Samsung 40Ts are 35A+ is really not sustainable.

30Ts would’ve been much better.

Battery packs are 4s2p, 35a cells will be plenty.

If the leds need 200 amps at 6v, that is 50A per cell.

It looks like the 40T data sheet says it can do 45A continous, but only up to 80°C. So short duration 45A is okay.

Maybe the 40T is fine since max turbo on this light is pretty short and the cells should not overheat in that short period.

Are they not running these LEDs at 12v? If they are running at 6v that is some pretty heavy buck at play considering the battery packs are 16.8v


I don’t know how they are running them. I used 6v as an example.

200A@6v
400A@3v
100A@12

The batteries see the same 50A each.

grahambo0101
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JasonWW wrote:
grahambo0101 wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
grahambo0101 wrote:
BlueSwordM wrote:
Yeah. Samsung 40Ts are 35A+ is really not sustainable.

30Ts would’ve been much better.

Battery packs are 4s2p, 35a cells will be plenty.

If the leds need 200 amps at 6v, that is 50A per cell.

It looks like the 40T data sheet says it can do 45A continous, but only up to 80°C. So short duration 45A is okay.

Maybe the 40T is fine since max turbo on this light is pretty short and the cells should not overheat in that short period.

Are they not running these LEDs at 12v? If they are running at 6v that is some pretty heavy buck at play considering the battery packs are 16.8v


I don’t know how they are running them. I used 6v as an example.

200A@6v
400A@3v
100A@12

The batteries see the same 50A each.

If the LEDs are run at 12v, then they only need half the amperage vs. if they are run at 6v. So at 12v, it would only draw 25a per cell

JordanZHP
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https://m4dm4x.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/4-1.jpg

That image says 40T for the R90TS. I assume the MS18 uses the same?

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the battery pack is the same afaik

 

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JordanZHP wrote:
https://m4dm4x.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/4-1.jpg

That image says 40T for the R90TS. I assume the MS18 uses the same?


If you go to Banggood,you see that Imalent sells a two head,(MS18+R90TS,plus one battery pack),combo.
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MS12 ran at 12v I am sure the 18 will run at 12.

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grahambo0101 wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
grahambo0101 wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
grahambo0101 wrote:
BlueSwordM wrote:
Yeah. Samsung 40Ts are 35A+ is really not sustainable.

30Ts would’ve been much better.

Battery packs are 4s2p, 35a cells will be plenty.

If the leds need 200 amps at 6v, that is 50A per cell.

It looks like the 40T data sheet says it can do 45A continous, but only up to 80°C. So short duration 45A is okay.

Maybe the 40T is fine since max turbo on this light is pretty short and the cells should not overheat in that short period.

Are they not running these LEDs at 12v? If they are running at 6v that is some pretty heavy buck at play considering the battery packs are 16.8v


I don’t know how they are running them. I used 6v as an example.

200A@6v
400A@3v
100A@12

The batteries see the same 50A each.

If the LEDs are run at 12v, then they only need half the amperage vs. if they are run at 6v. So at 12v, it would only draw 25a per cell


I don’t think you understand parallel vs series when it come to amperage in batteries.

Let’s say the flashlight runs at 12v (I’m pretty sure it does since the battery pack runs at this voltage). There are 8 cells in the battery pack wired 4S2P. So 4 in series and then these 4 are wired together in parallel with the other 4 in series.

With 100 amps total, each group of 4 cells handles 50A.

Each of the 4 cells in series is running at 50A in order to produce the 12v.

If you look at things from the point of view as wattage, the light is producing maybe 1200 watts (200A@6v, 400A@3v, 100A@12v all equal 1200 watts). 1200 watts divided by 8 is 150 watts per battery. Each battery is 3v (I’m using 3v, 6v, 12v to keep things simple. Actual voltage will be 4.2v, 8.4v and 16.8v) So if each cell produces 150 watts and it’s 3v, Ohms Law (wattage = volts x amps) says the cell has to produce 50 amps.

I hope this makes sense.

(Keep in mind that I’m just estimating the light needs about 1200 watts to produce 100,000 lumen from 18 × 70.2 with maybe 20% losses out the front. I don’t have actual measurements from the light.)

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Total power consumption of the light determines individual battery amperage. This is independent of battery configuration.

grahambo0101
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JasonWW wrote:

I don’t think you understand parallel vs series when it come to amperage in batteries.

Let’s say the flashlight runs at 12v (I’m pretty sure it does since the battery pack runs at this voltage). There are 8 cells in the battery pack wired 4S2P. So 4 in series and then these 4 are wired together in parallel with the other 4 in series.

With 100 amps total, each group of 4 cells handles 50A.

Each of the 4 cells in series is running at 50A in order to produce the 12v.

If you look at things from the point of view as wattage, the light is producing maybe 1200 watts (200A@6v, 400A@3v, 100A@12v all equal 1200 watts). 1200 watts divided by 8 is 150 watts per battery. Each battery is 3v (I’m using 3v, 6v, 12v to keep things simple. Actual voltage will be 4.2v, 8.4v and 16.8v) So if each cell produces 150 watts and it’s 3v, Ohms Law (wattage = volts x amps) says the cell has to produce 50 amps.

I hope this makes sense.

(Keep in mind that I’m just estimating the light needs about 1200 watts to produce 100,000 lumen from 18 × 70.2 with maybe 20% losses out the front. I don’t have actual measurements from the light.)


Oh I see. Thanks for the clarification, very well explained and much appreciated.
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mattjk wrote:
MS12 ran at 12v I am sure the 18 will run at 12.

DX80 run 16V from battery pack but the 8 leds wired in 4S 2P and 6V soldering (12V soldering is more difficult with a lot leds on theMCPCB because need more traces) so the led board needed 24V. According to this it has a boost driver to not use huge wires to MCPCB. I don’t know more just speculating that maybe MS18 also have several leds in series to lower current and use smaller gauge wires and a boost driver. The battery pack fully charged is 16.8V in MS18 and R90TS. That is a fact.

Just sayin Wink

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Are these shipping to customers yet?

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shipping from factory to the shops to be forwarded to the customers

 

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grahambo0101
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M4D M4X wrote:

shipping from factory to the shops to be forwarded to the customers

Have they already left the factory?

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i was told they ship after wednesday this week

they did extensive testing and raised the QC a lot

 

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Hopefully they ship and get to the US before the 25% duties kicks in. It would be terrible.

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Unless of course they send it as gift $5 like they always do with all other flashlights.

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nice!


is that mine? (DHL has it since tuesday….) Angry  

 

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The r90ts doesnt look that good now. It simply has more lumens over the r90c, the same throw and by the looks alot less runtime.
It reads turbo 60s which must be step down time as even high runtime is short and they have 8 cells. Really dont think its worth it if without more throw.1700m isnt much, the blf gt4 sounds like it will beat it by far with good sustained lumens.

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Compared with Acebeam X70, MS18 has twice as much lumens output, here’re some pics from my friend Dabo. Silly
ms18:

x70:

temperature test with ms18 when it in steady state:

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Saul M wrote:
The r90ts doesnt look that good now. It simply has more lumens over the r90c, the same throw and by the looks alot less runtime.
It reads turbo 60s which must be step down time as even high runtime is short and they have 8 cells.

It depends on how you look at the specs. The R90C says it does 20,000 lumen (really closer to 16k-17k) for 3.5 minutes.

The R90TS rating says it can do 15,000 lumen for 80 minutes. This is thanks to the better cooling.

So at this lumen level the R90TS is superior to the older R90C.

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Thanks for posting the graphs Pearldriver. It’s hard to imagine the MS18 is more than twice as bright as the X70. That would mean it is making over 100k peak lumens. However, it seems like the sustained load is about 14k lumens. Was hoping for 20k lumens sustained.

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Definitely impressive… Cool

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It looks like the sustained on the MS18 roughly matches the sustained on the X70. Sustained on the MS18 was 647 and sustained on the X70 was halfway between 400 and 800, leaning a little closer to the 800 side in the beginning. While it’s not 20,000, I’m hoping it means the sustained is closer to 18,000 like the X70 is advertised.

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pearlriver wrote:
Compared with Acebeam X70, MS18 has twice as much lumens output,

That doesn’t appear to be measuring lumens. It seems to be measuring lux which can vary based on the beam angle from the reflector (wide, narrow, etc…)
We need more info on what is measured and how the measurements were done. Ideally you need a large integrating sphere to take the beam angles out of the equation.
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pearlriver wrote:
Compared with Acebeam X70, MS18 has twice as much lumens output, here’re some pics from my friend Dabo. Silly ms18: x70: temperature test with ms18 when it in steady state: !https://i.bmp.ovh/imgs/2019/05/bdf9c47fe168d00b.gif!

Got some beam shots??

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grahambo0101 wrote:
pearlriver wrote:
Compared with Acebeam X70, MS18 has twice as much lumens output, here’re some pics from my friend Dabo. Silly ms18: x70: temperature test with ms18 when it in steady state: !https://i.bmp.ovh/imgs/2019/05/bdf9c47fe168d00b.gif!

Got some beam shots??


beam shots between 90ts and x65.

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