[Update]Wurkkos dual LEDs 21700 Headlamp design Photos/UI update~

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Miguel_79
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If we talk about the colors that the flashlight will have, in my opinion the dark gray color seen in this image would be ideal, better than the black of the real photos that you passed later.

DominikM
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It’s huge… 100 (body) +68 (cell) +12(mount) -> 180 grams Shocked

I think, that it’s time to stop adding the headband to the angle light, and calling it headlamp… Please Question

Enlightened member of pl.rec.rowery

Light-Test.info – bike light’s & Headlamps comparison site. – In polish but picture says everything

Wurkkos
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Lux-Perpetua wrote:

@MacLee:


Mark, I took the liberty to visualize the draft UI you posted in post #1, see below.


Some thoughts and questions…(sorry for this much text but I try to list up everything that came into my mind)



  • Do you have any plans to include a ramping mode in HD20’s UI? The stepped modes look fine so far. I would recommend a good mode spacing between low, medium, high and turbo. If you consider using the moonlight mode as a totally separate brightness level, I would suggest a mode spacing like 5lm (low), 150-250lm (medium), 600-800lm (high) and 1.600lm (turbo) for spotlight and 5lm (low), 80lm (medium), 250lm (high), 600lm (turbo) for floodlight. Please try to use a sublumen value for the moonlight mode, i.e. 0.5lm would be nice. High mode should be sustainable without any stepdowns.

  • If possible in terms of efforts and material costs, please try using a thermal stepdown regulation instead of a fixed timed stepdown as in FC11. In cold ambient conditions HD20 could run on turbo mode much longer. Sofirn has recently introduced new thermal regulations (ATR) in their new drivers (e.g. IF25, IF25A, SP33 V3). They should be able to use the driver’s NTP for thermal regulation unless HD20’s driver is a complete new design.

  • I vote for black and desert tan as anodization colors. The blue color looks somehow a bit cheap and less appealing, especially for a headlight someone would mount onto the forehead. Smile The “army green” tint could be an intriguing look, though. If you still intend to sell a blue version, I would be careful with the lot size to avoid excess stock.

  • I fully agree with the majority here to avoid any CCTs > 5.000K. Any tint between 4.000K and 5.000K is fine. If you can, please avoid AR coating on the optics/lenses for the floodlight (LH351D). It has come to BLF’s attention that this LED somehow produces greenish tintshift with coated glasses. If the floodlight optic uses a pebble design for light diffusion this problem will probably not appear anyway.

  • In terms of the headstrap, please check for a better headstrap than the one Sofirn used for SP40. The cheap rubber mount of SP40 gave me a hard time to handle, fiddling the flashlight into and out of the mount. The headstrap should also include an overhead strap in the middle to improve weight distribution upon the head, especially with a weight of 160g.

  • Regarding the USB-C output, please try to incorporate the latest charging circuit revisions that Sofirn used for their LT1 lantern. These changes include two small resistors that enable the USB-C port to be used with type C to type C cables. Without these revisions HD20 can only be charged with type A to type C cables between charger and flashlight. This is nothing mandatory but it has the potential to become a minor nuisance when type C cables will become more common in the next years.


 


Concerning the UI in particular…



  • What LEDs will run using the strobe modes? Flood, spot or both?

  • What LEDs will run using the moonlight mode? Flood, spot or both?

  • What will actually happen when the battery check is initiated? Will the LEDs blink out the voltage (e.g. 3x short blink, pause, 8x short blink = 3.8V) or will the switch LED indicate the approximate battery status by different colors?



Thank you,Lux-Perpetua. That is awesome drawing of the UI.

What LEDs will run using the strobe modes? Flood, spot or both?——both. strobe modes change by double click.
What LEDs will run using the moonlight mode? Flood, spot or both?—for now it is floodlight about 0.5-1lm.
What will actually happen when the battery check is initiated? Will the LEDs blink out the voltage (e.g. 3x short blink, pause, 8x short blink = 3.8V) or will the switch LED indicate the approximate battery status by different colors?—-the switch LED indicate different colors

Wurkkos
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DominikM wrote:
It’s huge… 100 (body) +68 (cell) +12(mount) -> 180 grams Shocked

I think, that it’s time to stop adding the headband to the angle light, and calling it headlamp… Please Question

Facepalm Facepalm
mitsuki08
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MacLee wrote:
DominikM wrote:
It’s huge… 100 (body) +68 (cell) +12(mount) -> 180 grams Shocked

I think, that it’s time to stop adding the headband to the angle light, and calling it headlamp… Please Question

Facepalm Facepalm

I agree with DominikM with this one. I used the PL47g2 hiking and the weight is noticeable and that is only around 150g.
BurningPlayd0h
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Same here, a huge reason I think Zebra’s headlamps are worth the price (and better than some competition) is their extremely light weight.

Quadrupel
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Driver? FET PWM both channels? No stabilization? Charger 500mA? ;))

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mitsuki08 wrote:
MacLee wrote:
DominikM wrote:
It's huge... 100 (body) +68 (cell) +12(mount) -> 180 grams Shocked I think, that it's time to stop adding the headband to the angle light, and calling it headlamp... Please :???:
Facepalm :FACEPALM:
I agree with DominikM with this one. I used the PL47g2 hiking and the weight is noticeable and that is only around 150g.

The goods news is that this light is planned to come with an overhead headstrap, as far as Mark told me today. This overhead part should give more support for weight balancing and distribution. For reference, a headstrap comparable to this one...

 

Acebeam's H30 is also quite heavy and big in size but I don't know how well their sales were running for this light. Did many people complain about PL47's weight? What headstrap did Fireflies supply with the PL47? Maybe we can use some best practice here to get a better product. Wink

 

Quadrupel wrote:
Driver? FET PWM both channels? No stabilization? Charger 500mA? ;))

I hope Mark or I will soon be able to get to tell the interesting specs about the driver. What I was told so far...

  • Type C charging unit incl. reverse charging (= "powerbank feature")
  • Sofirn's in 2019 revised ATR (advanced thermal regulation) with a 50°C threshold

Please note that the UI is still work in progress. Mark and I have talked a lot today on how to improve the UI for more convenience and flexibility. My plan was to remove the entire strobe modes (I hope everyone here agrees to this point of view) as strobe modes are proven to be quite ineffective against assaults by human beings or animals and often considered as a nuisance in BLF flashlights, especially in a headlamp. However... there are reasons to keep strobe modes and so my suggestion was to put strobe modes in a hidden section of the UI and leave more room for direct access to turbo mode from ON and OFF. We also try to improve the access to moonlight without getting into conflict with the nice powerbank feature while reverse-charging an external device.

Tom E
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I thought the PL47 was completely useless as a headlamp. I have one, the original, and use it more like an EDC. I recall lots of criticisms. Funny, the Amutorch E3 is very light for a 21700 light, but of course it's not a right angle head.

Wurkkos
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Yes, if strobe is no need , ad the most important is that access to instant moonlight and turbo, we will probably give up all strobes modes ( strobe, SOS, beacon) :ARROW-RIGHT:

roostre
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Wurkkos wrote:
Yes, if strobe is no need , ad the most important is that access to instant moonlight and turbo, we will probably give up all strobes modes ( strobe, SOS, beacon) :ARROW-RIGHT:

My opinion concerning headlamps (and flashlights) used for hiking, camping, mountaineering and other remote outdoor activities:

1) The SOS mode would be useful in case of an emergency.

2) The beacon mode would be useful to help someone find their way back to camp or another location.  

3) The SOS and beacon modes should be able to last a very long time without draining the battery too fast.

4) The magnetic tail cap should be an optional accessory or have a way to add or remove the magnet in the same tail cap.

Problems created by magnets:

a) They alter the reading and accuracy of a compass even from quite a distance away, so the compass cannot be used to find the correct direction of travel or take a bearing or accurately orient a paper map.

b) They erase the magnetic strips on credit cards when they get too close, so they cannot safely be near a wallet or in the same bag as a wallet.

c) They attract unwanted metallic objects. 

d) They add weight.

How many flashlights does a "real man" need?

None, real men are not afraid of the dark.

Lux-Perpetua
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roostre wrote:

My opinion concerning headlamps (and flashlights) used for hiking, camping, mountaineering and other remote outdoor activities:

1) The SOS mode would be useful in case of an emergency.

2) The beacon mode would be useful to help someone find their way back to camp or another location.  

3) The SOS and beacon modes should be able to last a very long time without draining the battery too fast.

[...]



Agreed! That makes sense. As long as these modes do not appear in the default stepped mode order, this should be fine. For instance, I could imagine activating SOS or Beacon mode i.a.w. the given UI like this:

 

When the headlamp is ON:

 

3x click = Turbo mode (both LEDs at full power)

from Turbo 2x click = SOS strobe

from SOS another 2x click = Beacon mode

from Turbo/SOS/Beacon 1x click = return to previous standard mode

 

When the headlamp is OFF:

 

Long press = Check battery status (will also work while reverse charging or while locked out)

1x click = turn ON (unless locked)

2x click = Moonlight/Firefly mode (0.5lm) (will also work while reverse charging or while locked out)

from Moonlight 1x click = turn OFF

3x click = Turbo mode (both LEDs at full power)

from Turbo 2x click = SOS strobe

from SOS another 2x click = Beacon mode

from Turbo/SOS/Beacon 1x click = turn OFF

4x click = Electronic Lockout mode

roostre
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Since headlamps and flashlights are uni-directional, a "diffuser" accessory would help the SOS or beacon signal to be visible in all directions even though the light level would be less (but at least you would have that option and the diffuser could also be useful in camp, but I realize it is not as easy to design a diffuser for a headlamp as it is for a flashlight).

How many flashlights does a "real man" need?

None, real men are not afraid of the dark.

Lux-Perpetua
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Yes, but it will probably get more difficult to diffuse the light evenly in a 90° angle headlamp beam than in a standard flashlight which emits light vertically upwards into a diffuser cap (attached to the head).

If you want something universal for usage both as headlamp and lantern (with diffuser cap), the head would need to have an adjustable angle.

Wurkkos
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Lux-Perpetua wrote:

Yes, but it will probably get more difficult to diffuse the light evenly in a 90° angle headlamp beam than in a standard flashlight which emits light vertically upwards into a diffuser cap (attached to the head).


If you want something universal for usage both as headlamp and lantern (with diffuser cap), the head would need to have an adjustable angle.



ohh, this design seems not bad
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Lux-Perpetua wrote:

roostre wrote:

My opinion concerning headlamps (and flashlights) used for hiking, camping, mountaineering and other remote outdoor activities:


1) The SOS mode would be useful in case of an emergency.


2) The beacon mode would be useful to help someone find their way back to camp or another location.  


3) The SOS and beacon modes should be able to last a very long time without draining the battery too fast.


[…]





Agreed! That makes sense. As long as these modes do not appear in the default stepped mode order, this should be fine. For instance, I could imagine activating SOS or Beacon mode i.a.w. the given UI like this:


 


When the headlamp is ON:


 


3x click = Turbo mode (both LEDs at full power)


from Turbo 2x click = SOS strobe


from SOS another 2x click = Beacon mode


from Turbo/SOS/Beacon 1x click = return to previous standard mode


 


When the headlamp is OFF:


 


Long press = Check battery status (will also work while reverse charging or while locked out)


1x click = turn ON (unless locked)


2x click = Moonlight/Firefly mode (0.5lm) (will also work while reverse charging or while locked out)


from Moonlight 1x click = turn OFF


3x click = Turbo mode (both LEDs at full power)


from Turbo 2x click = SOS strobe


from SOS another 2x click = Beacon mode


from Turbo/SOS/Beacon 1x click = turn OFF


4x click = Electronic Lockout mode


Thank you for this details, we are talking with the factory now to make the UI better. Can’t wait to see the final version and start production.
AEDe
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Lux-Perpetua wrote:
the given UI like this:

 


When the headlamp is ON:


 


3x click = Turbo mode (both LEDs at full power)


When the headlamp is OFF:

 


Long press = Check battery status (will also work while reverse charging or while locked out)


1x click = turn ON (unless locked)


2x click = Moonlight/Firefly mode (0.5lm) (will also work while reverse charging or while locked out)


from Moonlight 1x click = turn OFF


3x click = Turbo mode (both LEDs at full power)


from Turbo 2x click = SOS strobe


from SOS another 2x click = Beacon mode


from Turbo/SOS/Beacon 1x click = turn OFF


4x click = Electronic Lockout mode

Long press is very valuable do not waste it for not very often used batt check.
2*click in many lights is turbo. It will be inconvenient.

So
Long press – moonlight
2 * click turbo.
3 * click batt check
4 * click lockout

I think convenient control of two leds is impossible using one button.

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Lux-Perpetua wrote:

mitsuki08 wrote:
MacLee wrote:
DominikM wrote:
It’s huge… 100 (body) +68 (cell) +12(mount) -> 180 grams Shocked I think, that it’s time to stop adding the headband to the angle light, and calling it headlamp… Please Question
Facepalm Facepalm
I agree with DominikM with this one. I used the PL47g2 hiking and the weight is noticeable and that is only around 150g.

The goods news is that this light is planned to come with an overhead headstrap, as far as Mark told me today. This overhead part should give more support for weight balancing and distribution. For reference, a headstrap comparable to this one…



 


Acebeam’s H30 is also quite heavy and big in size but I don’t know how well their sales were running for this light. Did many people complain about PL47’s weight? What headstrap did Fireflies supply with the PL47? Maybe we can use some best practice here to get a better product. Wink

The Astrolux HL01 (in 18650 format) weighs even heavier than the Fireflies PL47, so I think that’s one downside of the HL01..
I’ve also gotten the PL47 (Nichia 219B very nice tint), but as Tom E mentions, use it mostly as a flashlight rather than in headlamp format..

I suppose headlamps will really have a weight limit to be useful (and not feel too heavy)…

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AEDe wrote:
Long press is very valuable do not waste it for not very often used batt check. 2*click in many lights is turbo. It will be inconvenient. So Long press - moonlight 2 * click turbo. 3 * click batt check 4 * click lockout I think convenient control of two leds is impossible using one button.

Good point, agreed. I will check with Wurkkos if they can use this scheme. Спасибо Smile

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Strobe could also be useful in some emergency situations, especially in daylight which seems counter-intuitive.

I gained some personal experience in these matters after being rescued because of a serious blood gushing compound fracture with multiple bones sticking out of my leg after a mountain biking accident in Moab Utah.

In my case, the helicopter could not locate me on the ground within the wide expanses peppered with canyons and not one of the dozen search and rescue people had smoke or flares.  Finally one of my friends took one of their radios away from them and told the helicopter pilot to stop circling hopelessly and to just fly straight.  Then he told the pilot he was going in the wrong direction and directed him to where we were.

Five operations later, the bone grafts and titanium hardware saved my leg.

This all occurred during daylight hours almost 30 years ago before the existence of today's LED technology but a bright powerful strobe could have signaled the helicopter and saved the day by getting me to the hospital hours earlier before my leg developed something called "compartment syndrome" which almost caused an amputation.

 

EDIT: 

Re-reading this post I want to clarify that I have no disrespect for search and rescue personnel.  My accident occurred prior to everyone having cell phones with GPS and they saved my life by using their radios to call in that helicopter and unselfishly volunteer their time helping others and I gratefully thank them for all they do and did for me.

I am also thankful for my friend who took charge of the situation when the pilot was about to give up and return to the trauma center where he was based in Grand Junction Colorado about 100 miles away before he ran out of fuel.

How many flashlights does a "real man" need?

None, real men are not afraid of the dark.

AEDe
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Strobes sometimes are really useful for locate yourself. But you can make strob with any light just waving or covering the light with your palm

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I‘m not against having strobe modes included but I guess the majority here will agree to have them hidden in the UI to prevent accidental activation. Strobe modes are often advertised to drive away / disorientate people or animals assaulting oneself. This has been more or less proven to be quite ineffective. However, to catch someone else’s attention as illustrated above, I agree that SOS and Beacon can be useful.

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Yes, please keep them hidden but available.

If you are lucky you will never need SOS, beacon, or strobe as an emergency signal.

But if you are not lucky, it is very valuable to have all three of these features as they each provide a unique capability for very different situations.

It would be helpful to have some hints in the instruction manual so people can better understand when to use these features because while most people know what SOS is for, many have never used a beacon or realize how visible a strobe would be during daylight hours.

How many flashlights does a "real man" need?

None, real men are not afraid of the dark.

Lightbringer
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Include LOL mode, too. It’s only 1 extra blink.

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roostre
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Lightbringer wrote:
Include LOL mode, too. It's only 1 extra blink.

and emergency donuts too.

My friend told me later that after the helicopter left with me in it one of the cops who showed up to manage the rescue said to the search and rescue people "I'm hungry where are we going for donuts".

This was rugged terrain with no roads and it was amazing how close they were able to get to me with their four wheel drive vehicles.  They called in the helicopter because I had already been out there for several hours and was slowly bleeding out but it may have been quicker if they had taken me to the hospital by ambulance but I did enjoy the helicopter ride while on morphine.

Sorry to go off topic, but my original point was that while SOS, beacon, and strobe modes may seem useless most of the time, you will appreciate them if you ever need them.

How many flashlights does a "real man" need?

None, real men are not afraid of the dark.

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Intrested please LH351D 5000k for flood and SST20 5000k for throw.

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I tried to tweak the UI a little bit, put a bit more emphasis on accessing Moonlight and Turbo mode more easily as well as keeping strobe modes available but hidden. I hope this chart is easy to follow. Any feedback is welcome. THX.

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Can the light be locked out with a quick half-twist of the tailcap? If so, just put the battery-check on first-connection, just like my MH20. Why waste a 3click or 4click for that?

My GTmicro, ‘mini, Q8, etc., all doubleblink on first connection to power. Just swap that with blinking out the cell voltage instead. Like with my MH20, a quick untwist-then-retwist blinks out the voltage and it’s done. No wasted clickyslots.

Frankly, I wish that would’ve been done on all my doubleblink lights…

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Lightbringer wrote:
Can the light be locked out with a quick half-twist of the tailcap? If so, just put the battery-check on first-connection, just like my MH20.

 

I guess so, as I assume the threads are anodized as usual in Sofirn‘s/Wurkkos’s products. I also agree that it would be nice if the battery status is being indicated when the tailcap is tightened. This should be feasible for Sofirn to manage but it depends on their engineer‘s and Mark‘s decision.

 

Lightbringer wrote:
Why waste a 3click or 4click for that? My GTmicro, 'mini, Q8, etc., all doubleblink on first connection to power. Just swap that with blinking out the cell voltage instead. Like with my MH20, a quick untwist-then-retwist blinks out the voltage and it's done. No wasted clickyslots. Frankly, I wish that would've been done on all my doubleblink lights...

 

HD20 will not blink out the voltage. It is meant to indicate its battery status by a colorful illuminated switch button (as many of Sofirn‘s lights). Personally, I would not want a flashlight to blink out the voltage automatically. There might be certain situations where starting a flashlight needs to be unobtrusive (e.g. during night and you just want to check something by using moonlight mode without waking up your spouse). Most people here will probably know what I mean. Big Smile

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Lux-Perpetua wrote:
Any feedback is welcome.

Turbo should be kiked out from cycle low->med->hi.
Changing of flood/throw is difficult and takes a lot of time.

For example I walk using flood light, then I want to look further, and turn on max throw.and than go back to flood.

Combination click+hold can be used for changing light type. Flood>throw>both

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